Why Does Snow Pack Better Near the Melting Point?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the phenomenon of snow packing effectively near the melting point, with participants sharing personal observations, experiences, and theories related to snow density and construction of snowmen. The scope includes both conceptual and experiential aspects of snow behavior in varying temperatures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Personal anecdotes

Main Points Raised

  • One participant observes that snow packs better above freezing temperatures, suggesting that pressure applied to snow near the melting point causes it to melt slightly and then re-solidify, aiding in packing.
  • Another participant notes that when snow is colder, even slightly below freezing, it becomes difficult to pack effectively for making snowmen.
  • Several participants share personal experiences of building snowmen, emphasizing the conditions under which snow packs well or poorly.
  • There are mentions of the effects of temperature on snow density and packing efficiency, with anecdotal evidence supporting the idea that warmer snow is easier to work with.
  • Some participants recount their experiences with snow in different climates, highlighting the variability in snow types and packing conditions based on geographic location.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that snow packs better near the melting point, but there is no consensus on the underlying physics, as some explanations are challenged or refined throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the thermodynamic principles involved, and there are references to differing experiences with snow based on climate and geography, which may influence perspectives on snow packing.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those curious about snow physics, snowman construction techniques, and the effects of temperature on snow behavior, particularly in varying climates.

  • #121
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  • #122
The above are the latest photos of the snowmen in my backyard in Chicago=I'm now up to 5. The 5th snowman I made today, Monday January 22, 2024, from snow that we had on Friday, but temperatures were too cold for it to pack. Today it warmed up to 33 degrees, and the snow packed fairly well.
 
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  • #123
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  • #124
The above are the latest photos of the snowmen in my backyard in Chicago. I now have 6=this is the first year that I have ever had more than 2 at the same time. The one I made today, Tuesday January 23, 2024 is 4'3" tall. It is also from Friday's snow, like the one I made yesterday. It was too cold to pack until yesterday.
 
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  • #125
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  • #126
The above is a photo of the 2'6" snowman that I made on Friday 2-23-24. The photo was taken Saturday 2-24-24. This was the only snowman I was able to make this February, as we've had very springlike weather for much of February in Chicago. This snowman took a lot of work because there was very little snow to work with, and it came down too cold or too dry to pack well. (I'm posting this one a week later, because I forgot to post it a week ago). Very different from January where I had 6 snowman in the backyard a month ago. (see pictures above in previous posts).
 
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  • #127
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  • #128
The above is a photo of a 2'7" snowman that I made Friday 3-22-24. Packing conditions were good, but I had very little snow to work with. The photo was taken today, Saturday 3-23-24. We had almost no snow this March in Chicago. This is the first snowman I was able to make since about a month ago in February.
 
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  • #129
Charles Link said:
Packing conditions were good, but I had very little snow to work with.
I can see that. It seems you used up all the available snow. :smile:
 
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  • #130
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  • #131
The above is a photo of the 2'7" snowman I made Friday, 3-22-24. @DennisN This photo was taken just after I built the snowman. You can get a good idea of how much snow there was=and see where I rolled the balls to make the grass bare. By the next day, all the snow was gone (in the other picture), but I thought it would be worthwhile to post this picture as well. :)
 
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  • #132
Always nice to see grownups having/taking the time to goof around in the snow. :)

You think there's some psychology at play here? Missing your childhood, perhaps?

Nah, you're probably just goofing around. It's funnier with children though :P
 
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  • #133
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  • #134
The above is a photo of a 3'6" snowman that I made today, Thursday 11-21-24. We had our first snowfall of the season today in Chicago.
 
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  • #135
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  • #136
The above is a photo of a 4'4" snowman that I made today Friday December 20, 2024 in Chicago. Packing was ideal with temperatures at 35 degrees, but there is a cold wind out of the north, so the temperature will be dropping shortly. It's likely to be around at least through Christmas.
 
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  • #137
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  • #138
The above is a photo of a 5'6" snowman that I made today, Sunday 1-12-25, in my backyard in Chicago. Most of the snow came down 2 days ago, but it was too cold to pack. Today the temperatures warmed up to about 33 degrees, and the packing was ideal. It was very easy to make, the packing was so good.
 
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  • #139
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  • #140
The above is what is now (today Saturday 1-18-25) a 4'4" snowman that was 5'6" last Sunday. Yesterday the temperatures got to 42 degrees in Chicago and stayed in the upper 30's for an extended time. Today the weather has turned much colder and the forecast is for temperatures to be below freezing for perhaps a week or more with even a couple of days where it may reach zero degrees.

The snowman shrunk a lot yesterday and was even leaning a lot and I had to straighten it by slicing through between the base and middle sections and moving the top part a few inches, and then packing some snow between the layers. Looks like it may be around for at least another week. :)
 
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  • #141
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  • #142
The above is a photo of the 5'0 snowman that I made today, Saturday February 15, 2025, in Chicago. It snowed on Wednesday, but it was 27 degrees then and too cold to pack. Today it warmed up to about 33 degrees, so I was able to get the snow to pack. It also snowed a little more last night.
 
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  • #143
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  • #144
The above is a photo of a 2'6" snowman that I made today, Sunday 3-16-25. We had very little snow today in Chicago, so it took a lot of work to even get a 2'6" snowman. It packed very well though with temperatures around 33 degrees.
 
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  • #145
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  • #146
The above is a photo of the 3'6" snowman that I made today, Thursday 3-20-25, in Chicago. The snow packed fairly well at about 33 degrees, but I didn't have a lot of snow to work with.
 
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  • #147
Y U have all this snow? It spring.
 
  • #148
We had a ton of rain in Milwaukee yesterday. Guess 100 miles south, it turned to snow!
 
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  • #149
@Greg Bernhardt We had mostly rain in Chicago yesterday as well. It turned to snow around 2 am and accumulated a little around 3 am. I put most of the snowman together around 3:30 am when I made it to be 3'0". It snowed more over the next 3 or 4 hours though, so when I got up this morning at 8 am, I rolled the balls a little more and made it into 3'6". The overnight low was around 32 degrees.
Note: I used a dowel rod to hold the 3'0" snowman together, so it was easy to take apart and re-roll the balls. I didn't have enough snow to put any between the layers.
 
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  • #150
DrClaude said:
I think that this is completely wrong. The ability to make snowballs is related to the wetness of the snow. Dry snow is not sticky at all, whatever the temperature, and I think the amount of pressure needed to even partially melt it is beyond what you can achieve with your hands. When the snow is wet, no pressure is needed: simply taking a snowball and lightly putting it on fresh snow is enough to make additional stick to it.

There is often a link between the wetness of the snow and temperature: wet snow usually falls when temperatures are close to freezing. But I have often seen dry snow when the temperature is just below freezing. Likewise, old snow that has been on the ground all winter is rarely sticky, whatever the temperature.

Caveat: all this is based on personal experience of having lived nearly all my life in regions where snow is abundant. I have never dug deeper as to what actually makes snow wet and dry.
I'm impressed that we had to come this far into the thread for someone to offer an actual explanation! :smile:
 

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