Why Does the dy Disappear When Solving Differential Equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the treatment of the differential notation in the context of solving differential equations, specifically addressing the question of why "dy" appears to disappear during integration steps. Participants explore the implications of integrating both sides of an equation and the role of variables in this process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the disappearance of "dy" during integration, seeking clarification on its role in the process.
  • Another participant argues that the initial approach is incorrect and suggests rewriting the equation to clarify the integration process, emphasizing the use of substitution.
  • A later reply reinforces the idea that "dy" is not being integrated but is a bookkeeping symbol, explaining that the integral of 1 with respect to y results in y, leading to the appearance of the variable without "dy".
  • There is a challenge regarding the introduction of "y(x)" and the implications of treating y as a function of x in the integration process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the initial approach and the interpretation of the integration process. No consensus is reached regarding the treatment of "dy" and the validity of the methods discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of understanding the role of variables and the implications of integration by substitution, while others highlight potential misunderstandings in the application of differential notation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning about differential equations, educators seeking to clarify common misconceptions, and anyone interested in the nuances of mathematical notation in calculus.

Physics-Pure
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Hello all~

Given the equation:
dy/dx = (x/y)
I know we would initially go to:
∫dy =∫ (x/y) dx
then too:
∫(y)(dy) = ∫x dx
Until arriving at:
(y2/2) + C1 = (x2/2) + C2
(y2) - (x2) = C

My question is:
Where does the dy disappear to in step 4? Where the anti-derivative is taken.

Why does ∫dy become just y when solving an equation of the form
dy/dx = (x2 + 1), but it disappears in the first example?


Thank you~
 
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This is, basically, wrong all the way.
First off, if you have dy/dx=x/y(x), we may rewrite this, bu multiplying both sides with y(x) as:

y(x)dy/dx=x.

Then, up to an arbitrary constant of integration, we'll have.

int((y(x)dy/dx)dx)=int(xdx).
That is integrating BOTH sides with respect to the same variable, i.e, "x".

Now, on the left-hand side, we use the reverse of the chain rule of differentiation, that is, integration by substitution, letting "y" be our integration variable.
There is no magical disappearance of any variables or infinitesemals.
 
arildno said:
This is, basically, wrong all the way.
First off, if you have dy/dx=x/y(x), we may rewrite this, bu multiplying both sides with y(x) as:

y(x)dy/dx=x.Now, on the left-hand side, we use the reverse of the chain rule of differentiation, that is, integration by substitution, letting "y" be our integration variable.
There is no magical disappearance of any variables or infinitesemals.

Where did that y(x) come from?
And are you saying that we let y = y(x)dy/dx)dx?

P.S. I was simply following the "Introduction to differential equations" video, under calculus. Found here: http://www.hippocampus.org/Calculus & Advanced Math;jsessionid=BAEE0BB1E88F4A594768EEBE4D8FC1EA
 
Why does ∫dy become just y when solving an equation of the form

Following the method presented (which is known as variables separable or separation of variables)

The answer is that ∫dy is not ∫dy it is the ∫1dy.
When you integrate this the integral of 1 is y and the dy drops out as it did in the previous example. You are not integrating the dy.
You asked why the dy drops out - well it is really a book- keeping symbol I see someone else already told you this in another thread.

You should note that the answer to your first question
Where does the dy disappear to in step 4?

is that is disappears to the same place the dx disappears to in the same line and for the same book-keeping reason.
 

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