Why Does the Partial Derivative of a Sum Cancel Out?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of partial derivatives applied to a summation of functions, specifically focusing on why certain terms cancel out when differentiating with respect to a specific variable, denoted as x_i. Participants explore the implications of treating x_i as an independent variable and the mathematical reasoning behind the differentiation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the summation cancels out when taking the partial derivative with respect to x_i, suggesting a need for detailed explanation.
  • Another participant asserts that if x_i are independent variables, then the derivative of x_j with respect to x_i is zero for j not equal to i, leading to a proposed answer of 2x_i.
  • Some participants express confusion about the cancellation of terms in the summation and request further clarification on the differentiation process.
  • A participant suggests using a different dummy variable for clarity in the summation limits.
  • Multiple participants illustrate the differentiation process by expanding the summation and applying the derivative term by term, emphasizing that only the term corresponding to x_i contributes to the derivative.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between the specific index i and the summation index, with some participants clarifying that i refers to a specific variable while the summation runs over all variables.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the explanations and acknowledges their learning experience in the forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mechanics of differentiation in this context, but there is some confusion regarding the implications of the summation and the role of the indices. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved as participants clarify their understanding without reaching a definitive consensus on all points.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the cancellation of terms and the treatment of indices, indicating a need for clearer definitions and assumptions regarding the variables involved in the summation.

Ryan187
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Why the summation of the following function will be canceled out when we take the partial derivative with respect to the x_i?
Notice that x_i is the sub of (i), which is the same lower limit of the summation! Can someone, please explain in details?
118541109_630427871231244_6999212244547890627_n.jpg
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The ##x_i## are, I assume, independent variables. If ##i \ne j## then ##\frac{\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} = 0##.

Note that the answer should be ##2x_i##.
 
Thank you PeroK! Even if x_i is an independent variable. why the summation is canceled out? can you explain the derivative in detail, please? and you're right the answer is 2x_i not x_i
 
Ryan187 said:
Thank you PeroK! Even if x_i is an independent variable. why the summation is canceled out? can you explain the derivative in detail, please? and you're right the answer is 2x_i not x_i
The summation is not needed because most terms in the sum are zero.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187 and etotheipi
PS it might help is you use a different dummy variable for the definition of ##y##. Use ##j = 1## to ##n## instead of ##i##, for example.
 
@Ryan187 if you replace the free index ##i## with a concrete number, can you for instance evaluate$$\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \sum_{k=1}^5 ({x_k}^2)= \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} ({x_1}^2 + {x_2}^2 + {x_3}^2 + {x_4}^2 + {x_5}^2)$$assuming the ##x_i## are independent variables?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187 and Mark44
Ryan187 said:
explain
Differentiation is a linear function: ##\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_j}(\alpha \cdot f(x)+\beta\cdot g(x))=\alpha\cdot \dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_j}f(x)+\beta\cdot \dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_j} g(x)##.

Here we only have a longer sum: ##x_1^2+x_2^2+\ldots+x_N^2##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187 and etotheipi
etotheipi said:
@Ryan187 if you replace the free index ##i## with a concrete number, can you for instance evaluate$$\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \sum_{k=1}^5 ({x_k}^2)= \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} ({x_1}^2 + {x_2}^2 + {x_3}^2 + {x_4}^2 + {x_5}^2)$$assuming the ##x_i## are independent variables?
This is the key -- expanding the sum, and then differentiating with respect to one of the terms in the sum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187 and etotheipi
So, in this case, I am kind of differentiating over one term that's why the sum will be canceled out?
 
  • #10
Ryan187 said:
So, in this case, I am kind of dif\displaystyle{}ferentiating over one term that's why the sum will be canceled out?
No. You differentiate all terms. ##\displaystyle{\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\left(\sum_{j=1}^N x_j^2\right) = \sum_{j=1}^N \dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (x_j^2)}##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187 and etotheipi
  • #11
I'll use my example again$$\begin{align*}\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \sum_{k=1}^5 ({x_k}^2)&= \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} ({x_1}^2 + {x_2}^2 + {x_3}^2 + {x_4}^2 + {x_5}^2)\\ \\&= \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_1}^2) + \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_2}^2) + \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_3}^2)+ \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_4}^2)+\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_5}^2) \\ \\

&= 0 + 0 + \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3}({x_3}^2) + 0 + 0\end{align*}$$I see I've been beaten to it by @fresh_42 :wink:
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187
  • #12
etotheipi said:
I see I've been beaten to it by @fresh_42 :wink:
I have these shortcuts on the keyboard:

\displaystyle{}
\dfrac{}{}
\left(\right)
\partial

:smile:
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Likes   Reactions: jim mcnamara and etotheipi
  • #13
but in this case, we derive with respect to x3 (i=3) which is one term, but the original derivative is with respect to (x_i) which is the whole i's values?!
 
  • #14
Ryan187 said:
but in this case, we derive with respect to x3 (i=3) which is one term, but the original derivative is with respect to (x_i) which is the whole i's values?!
No. ## i ## is just one specific index, an arbitrary one, but a specific one. That's why we have to distinguish this index from the summation index which runs over all. One of them matches ##j=i## whereas all others do not: ##j\neq i##. The former yields ##2x_i##, the latter yields the zeros.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ryan187
  • #15
Got it now! Thanks, guys, you're amazing! It is my first thread to this community!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K