Why Don't I Pick Up Paper in Public Toilets?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the incident involving Senator Larry Craig and the circumstances surrounding his arrest in a public restroom, particularly focusing on the implications of his actions and the societal perceptions of such behavior. The conversation touches on themes of public conduct, legal definitions of solicitation, and the reactions to the incident in a broader social context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express discomfort with public restroom cleanliness and the idea of picking up paper from the floor.
  • Several posts reference the specifics of Senator Craig's arrest, including his claims about reaching for paper and the police's interpretation of his actions as solicitation.
  • There are differing opinions on whether Craig's behavior constituted disorderly conduct or if it was an overreaction by law enforcement.
  • Participants discuss the societal implications of the incident, including hypocrisy and the nature of public scrutiny regarding personal conduct.
  • Some participants question the validity of the signals interpreted by police as solicitation, suggesting they may be innocuous in nature.
  • Others argue that the context of the signals, combined with Craig's actions, supports the police's interpretation of his behavior as soliciting lewd conduct.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether Craig's actions were inappropriate or if the police's response was justified. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of his behavior and the societal implications of the incident.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the definitions of solicitation and disorderly conduct, as well as the assumptions underlying the interpretations of Craig's actions and the police's responses.

  • #31
And Craig has announced his resignation effective at the end of the month.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest
BOISE, Idaho - Idaho Sen. Larry Craig resigned Saturday over a men's room sex sting, bowing to pressure from fellow Republicans worried about a scandal dimming their election prospects.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/01/craig.arrest/index.html
 
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  • #33
drankin said:
I agree. He's a freak. If someone harassed me while I was in the can, I'd be a bit upset. Certainly should be a criminal offense of some kind.

How was it harrassment? The cop had to have been playing along, giving the impression the advances were welcomed. Let's put it this way...you're in a bathroom stall, and if you haven't noticed anything before then and were coincidentally toe-tapping right along with the guy next to you, then the guy next to you is suddenly bumping your foot with his foot (you'd still have to have your foot pretty close to the divider too for that to even work)...what would you do? You'd move your foot away. He'd know you weren't interested or didn't know what was going on, and game over. If your feet touch and you don't move away, that signals acceptance of that contact. Let's not forget that it was also probably pretty apparent from a glance at ankles that the cop sitting in the stall didn't have his pants down either, so it was a good bet that was the person to try to initiate contact with.

Like I said above, if he was engaging in the sex act itself in the mens' room, or soliciting a paid prostitute and money exchanged hands, I would understand the illegality of it, but to arrest him because of some vague signals that would mean nothing to the average passer-by?

The other thing that struck me amidst all the news about this story is...why are we wasting taxpayer money to have cops sitting in a mens' room all day trying to catch men who are just desperate for sex? Having a minimum wage employee as a bathroom attendant would be just as effective at deterring anyone from lingering, or just have the janitor clean that restroom more frequently to have more of a presence that would make it unsuitable for lingering.

The only fitting irony is that this is the party that is continuously trying to pass the legislation that forces people to stay in the closet and seek to hook-up in such clandestine ways.
 
  • #34
Moonbear said:
The other thing that struck me amidst all the news about this story is...why are we wasting taxpayer money to have cops sitting in a mens' room all day trying to catch men who are just desperate for sex?
But it's gay sex! Surely, every penny we can pour into defending ourselves from it is worth it. :rolleyes:
 
  • #35
Astronuc said:
And Craig has announced his resignation effective at the end of the month.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/01/craig.arrest/index.html

Wait! He's not going away quite so fast: Idaho Republican may fight to keep Senate seat, reverse guilty plea.

His lawyer has a point about non-job related misdemeanors. I think he overlooks one point.

A Congressman personally opposed to homosexuality could support efforts for gay marriages, but a gay Congressman can't support anti-gay legislation. It would be as hard as a Congressman getting an abortion while leading the effort to ban abortion. One direction is being fair-minded and open to other's beliefs. The other direction is hypocrisy. It's an argument that's only effective in one direction.

That might still be a decision better left to voters come election time. It might turn out to be a low priority item among voters.
 
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  • #36
BobG said:
Wait! He's not going away quite so fast.
The Democratic party promised to contribute to his campaign if he wouldn't quit.
 

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