Why Haven't Lighter Density Liquids for Swimming Pools Been Invented?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using lighter density liquids in swimming pools, exploring the implications for buoyancy, swimming performance, and safety during activities like jump training. Participants consider theoretical and practical aspects of alternative liquids compared to water.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a lighter density liquid could allow for easier movement and reduce injury during jump training.
  • Another participant raises concerns about buoyancy, stating that if the liquid density were significantly lower than water, swimmers would struggle to stay afloat.
  • Several participants discuss the implications of Archimedes' principle, noting that a swimmer's weight in different liquids would change based on the liquid's density.
  • There is a suggestion that creating a liquid with a specific density could be theoretically possible, but practical challenges such as sinking and drowning are highlighted.
  • Some participants mention that while water density can be altered slightly through solutions (e.g., saltwater), most alternatives would be impractical due to toxicity or cost.
  • One participant notes that the viscosity of a liquid may affect swimming speed more than its density.
  • Another participant references a Mythbusters episode that tested swimming in a denser substance, indicating that viscosity changes were primarily observed rather than density changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and implications of using lighter density liquids in swimming pools. There is no consensus on the practicality of such liquids, with multiple competing perspectives on buoyancy, safety, and the nature of water's density.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of density and buoyancy, as well as unresolved questions about the practical implementation of lighter density liquids in swimming pools.

JohnniG
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Today on my way to a swimming lesson, i wondered why swimmingpools with other kinds of liquid mass in them havn't been invented? I was wondering if water with a different density and lighter mass wouldn't equal that a human beeing would more easily go through the water and not hit himself as bad if he trains jump-ins and such. Why havn't a lighter mass watertype been invented? Wouldn't it be perfect for huge jump training so you won't hit yourself as bad. A downside would ofcourse be (I believe its Newtons law) that you won't swim as fast because of friction (action/reaction) would be less.

Any way, just a thought :) New to the forum. Hello all.

Ps: Please bare with me. I am not a physics major or anything classy, just interested.
 
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One immediate problem would be sinking. If the liquid density were half of water (half a human), then the swimmer would have to produce an upward thrust of ~ 50 Kg just to stay on top.

Bob S
 
so that's about 25 kg in normal water?
 
JohnniG said:
so that's about 25 kg in normal water?
According to Archimedes, if your normal weight (mass) is say 80 Kg, your weight in regular water is ~0 Kg, and ~40 Kg in half density water. So you will sink.

Bob S
 
Right. What if your weight is 40 kg then? 0 and 20 in the other water?
 
JohnniG said:
Right. What if your weight is 40 kg then? 0 and 20 in the other water?
40 Kg in regular water and 20 Kg in lite-water. The buoyant upward force is equal to the weight of the water your body displaces.

Bob S
 
but that makes no sense? You are way easier to lift in water? So you have to at least feel lighter? If you weighed 100 kg it feels like 50 in water if a persons lifts you etc?
 
JohnniG said:
but that makes no sense? You are way easier to lift in water? So you have to at least feel lighter?
Right. In your substance X, rather than weighting 80kg, you might weight 40. You would have to geenrate 40kg of lift while swimming to stay afloat.



Think of your substance as somewhere between air and water.

You have a tiny amount of bouyancy in air. It will take 80kg to lift you.
You have a lot of bouyancy in water. It will take 0 kg to lift you.
You have a small amount of bouyancy in substance X. It will take 40kg to lift you.


BTW, one of the ways of making such a substance is to inject it with air bubbles. People fallen into vats of foam (such as processing beer). They sink to the bottom and drown because the substance is not dense enough to swim in.
 
That's a great post. I understand you now. Ill just look up bouyancy to grasp the term ;) But in generel I get your point.


Back to topic though. Why don't you make water that requires 20% of your bodyweight to lift you. It would be able to swim in, and not hurt when you land in it?
 
  • #10
By the way, this:
JohnniG said:
...water with a different density and lighter mass...
...is a self-contradiction. A swimming pool with a fixed volume of water has one mass and an associated density. If you increase the mass, you increase the density and vice versa. You can't increase the density while decreasing the mass unless you make the pool smaller and the making the pool smaller bit doesn't have any effect on buoyancy or drag.
 
  • #11
JohnniG said:
Back to topic though. Why don't you make water that requires 20% of your bodyweight to lift you. It would be able to swim in, and not hurt when you land in it?
Because you'd sink. And then drown.

Try this: tie 35 pounds of rocks around your waist, jump in and try to swim.

Hint: Don't.
 
  • #12
You're right. Probably would be too hard to stay afloat.
 
  • #13
There are no "waters of different density". Density is a property of the substance, so water has always the same density. You can slightly change the density of water dissolving something - for example ammonia solutions have lower density, while kitchen salt solutions have greater density (which is why it is easier to float in the sea than in fresh water). Trick is, you will not want to swim in most of these solutions One can think about using different liquids, but in most cases they they will be either expensive or poisonous (or both).
 
  • #14
Borek said:
...you will not want to swim in most of these solutions One can think about using different liquids, but in most cases they they will be either expensive or poisonous (or both).

Right - you could fill a pool with mercury, and barely get your knees 'wet'...
 
  • #15
Actually, when I first saw the title of this thread, I thought you were talking about using liquids denser than water so it would be easier to swim in them! Of course, a major problem with all of this is that all water has the same density so you would have to use other kinds of liquid- and they are almost uniformly poisonous (many if absorbed through the skin).
 
  • #16
There are of course already "different types" of water; e.g. very salt water like in the Dead Sea (density 1.2x that of water) or water with continuously "injected" air (lower density).

It is also possible to make water more "slippery" by mixing in a small amount of certain polymers, although I've never heard of anyone actually filling a whole pool with that stuff.
 
  • #17
HallsofIvy said:
Actually, when I first saw the title of this thread, I thought you were talking about using liquids denser than water so it would be easier to swim in them! Of course, a major problem with all of this is that all water has the same density so you would have to use other kinds of liquid- and they are almost uniformly poisonous (many if absorbed through the skin).
Custard:smile:
 
  • #18
The salty dead sea water was a good example :)
 
  • #19
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  • #20
Seems to me like they have mostly changed the viscosity, not the density.
 
  • #21
Borek said:
Seems to me like they have mostly changed the viscosity, not the density.

Good point. When I read this thread that episode popped into my mind, guess I should have read what they specifically did.
 
  • #22
JohnniG said:
Today on my way to a swimming lesson, i wondered why swimmingpools with other kinds of liquid mass in them havn't been invented? I was wondering if water with a different density and lighter mass wouldn't equal that a human beeing would more easily go through the water and not hit himself as bad if he trains jump-ins and such. Why havn't a lighter mass watertype been invented? Wouldn't it be perfect for huge jump training so you won't hit yourself as bad. A downside would ofcourse be (I believe its Newtons law) that you won't swim as fast because of friction (action/reaction) would be less.
In case, you should find a *denser* liquid which is also *more fluid* than water: it would be better for dives and also for swimming.
 

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