cyrusabdollahi said:
Russ, if you read what he wrote carefully, you will see that he said that he wants to convert the US, but he did not say he was fighting the US because they are not yet converted. He said they are fighting for the reasons of occupation and corruption. He said, "what we are calling from you", not "why we are killing you" Why we are fighting you was in question (Q1). Re-read it with more care. His calling for you to convert is no different than the mormons, or christians, that go house to house trying to convert everyone. They are also, "calling" america to convert, but his fighting america is for a different reason.
Well gee, Cyrus, let's see what else he is asking us to do:
(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.
(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.
So basically we need to stop having sex, not allow homosexuality, stop all use of drugs, stop all forms of gambling, and no longer allow banks to collect interest on the money they loan out.
You see these as being workable goals somehow?
We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.
(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:
(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?
There's another great demand: end the separation of church and state and institute Islamic doctrine as federal law. Is that one workable?
(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.
Here I'm not sure if he's simply asking us to disallow the collecting of interest or asking us to expel all Jews from the country (or at least from all positions of power within the country). Neither one seems all that workable.
(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.
I'm not too sure about this one. US law does not allow the productions, trade, or usage of any drugs other than those with legitimate medical usage. Perhaps he thinks the DEA is just a sham that allows people to use even though it's officially illegal? Do you agree with that? What's the workable demand here?
(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.
Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?
Is this a workable demand? Should we retroactively throw Clinton in jail, or perhaps perform an "honor killing" on Monica Lewinski?
(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.
Okay, so we should close down Vegas and the New York Stock Exchange. A workable demand?
(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.
How dare we allow women to be employed as bartenders, restaurant servers, and airline attendants, much less as commercial models.
(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.
What is the demand here? He doesn't seem to be speaking specifically of the porn industry, although he presumably wants us to shut that one down. I guess no more nudity in film, no more sexual language or innuendo on television? Do you consider this to be a reasonable, workable demand?
(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.
Okay, now the US invented AIDS. Is this because we've let ourselves be overrun with homosexuals or is this another Jew thing?
(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.
(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.
Okay, I can live with signing the Kyoto accords and reforming campaign finance. Still with the whole Jews controlling the country thing, though.
(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?
Well, it took something like three weeks after the last bomb was dropped until Japan finally surrendered, and there were isolated groups 30 years later that were still fighting, so I'm not sure he's being entirely historically accurate here. Also, given that Japan attacked us first, it's hard to see how we fought them purely for our own interest and profit. Perhaps it wasn't out of any principle as he says, but does he really believe that self-defense is not a good military justification?
(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.
(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!
Yeah, he might have somewhat of a point there. He is more consistent in that he just wants Islamic tyrrany everywhere.
(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possesses such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.
He's probably right here, but he's kind of the pot calling the kettle black considering that he wants us to allow Islamic nations hostile toward us to possesses nuclear weapons but does not even allow for the existence of Israel.
(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.
Well, let's see: he intentionally targets innocent people to bomb, attacks non-military targets, refuses to uniform his combatants, beheads prisoners, but
we're the last ones to respect international law?
(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.
Well, this isn't technically accurate, since the US isn't using the international court to try anyone so far as I know. Then again, presumably if someone set up a special tribunal to try Bush for war crimes, he would not assent (of course, something gives me the feeling that Bin Laden would not himself recognize the legitimacy of any court that tried him).
Still, he might have a point, except that the events he cites all occurred in response to his attack on the US, so unless he is asserting backward causation, it's hard to see how these serve as justification for what he did.
(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.
What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"
He probably has an honest beef here. However, he earlier cited the ability of the American people to influence and choose their leaders as a justification for attacking civilians directly. I would guess that most Americans do not support secret prisons in Guatanamo, and many of them voted against Bush, yet he still feels justified in killing them.
(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.
Well, here we go with an actual demand, finally after all the ranting. We need to have better manners, like calling for the death of all infidels, the eradication of Israel, and the suppression of sex and homos, I suppose.
(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.
Here's a really workable demand: from now on let's allow Bin Laden to choose our allies for us.
(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.
What's he referring to here? Military bases? Tourists? McDonald's? Israel?
(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.
Who does he mean? The House of Saud? I could live with no longer supporting them, but something tells me that a whole other host of murderous zealots would get pissed at us for that.
(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you.
Hey, Carter, Clinton, and even Bush now have tried to get some kind of settlement going between Arabs and Jews in Israel/Palestine, but if he won't even allow for the existence of Israel or the presence of Jews at all in his "holy land," what does he expect from us?
By the way, how do the inflated prices that the OPEC cartel sells oil at constitute "theft" on our part? It's not like Arab royalty doesn't profit from this and I don't see how it's reasonable to hold the American civilian public responsible for the fact that they don't distribute any of that wealth to their own people.
Could the two sides give a basic statement or something, cause you're all quoting each other and it's looking more like a boxing match than a debate (of sorts). It's hard for us wannabees to add on and get a good feedback if we can't put our finger on what your arguing.
Are you really that nieve?
