Why Is Q x Q Not a Cyclic Group?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr Davis 97
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cyclic
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion confirms that the group ##\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}## is not cyclic. The proof utilizes a contradiction approach, assuming it is generated by an element ##(r,q)## with both ##r \ne 0## and ##q \ne 0##. The argument shows that if ##(0,q) = k \cdot (r,q)##, then ##r## must equal zero, leading to a contradiction. Additionally, the proof for why ##\mathbb{Q}## alone is not cyclic is established by demonstrating that assuming it is cyclic leads to a non-integer value for ##k##, which is impossible.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of group theory concepts, specifically cyclic groups.
  • Familiarity with the properties of rational numbers, denoted as ##\mathbb{Q}##.
  • Knowledge of proof techniques, particularly proof by contradiction.
  • Basic algebra involving integers and rational numbers.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the properties of cyclic groups in abstract algebra.
  • Learn about direct and indirect proof techniques in mathematical reasoning.
  • Explore the structure of groups formed by rational numbers, including subgroups.
  • Investigate other mathematical structures that are not cyclic, such as ##\mathbb{Z} \times \mathbb{Z}##.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematics students, particularly those studying abstract algebra, educators teaching group theory, and anyone interested in the properties of rational numbers in group contexts.

Mr Davis 97
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
44

Homework Statement


Prove that ##\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}## is not cyclic.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


For contradiction suppose that ##\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}## is cylic. Hence it is generated by some element ##(r,q)## where ##r \ne 0## and ##q \ne 0##. Then for some ##k \in \mathbb{Z}##, ##(0,q) = k \cdot (r,q) = (kr,kq)##. So ##kr = 0## and ##kq = q##. So ##k = 1##, which implies that ##r = 0##, a contradiction.

Is this proof correct? Is there a better proof, perhaps a direct one?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Mr Davis 97 said:

Homework Statement


Prove that ##\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}## is not cyclic.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


For contradiction suppose that ##\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}## is cylic. Hence it is generated by some element ##(r,q)## where ##r \ne 0## and ##q \ne 0##. Then for some ##k \in \mathbb{Z}##, ##(0,q) = k \cdot (r,q) = (kr,kq)##. So ##kr = 0## and ##kq = q##. So ##k = 1##, which implies that ##r = 0##, a contradiction.

Is this proof correct? Is there a better proof, perhaps a direct one?
Looks o.k. to me. I'd only add a line for ##r\neq 0 \neq q## because it is essential for the proof, but what's the reason to exclude them? This way you could drop one of the proof's indirect arguments. Keep it as is and end why ##r=0## won't work instead of assuming it.

And why is ##\mathbb{Q}## alone not cyclic?
 
Last edited:
fresh_42 said:
Looks o.k. to me. I'd only add a line for ##r\neq 0 \neq q## because it is essential for the proof, but what's the reason to exclude them? This way you could drop one of the proof's indirect arguments. Keep it as is and end why ##r=0## won't work instead of assuming it.

And why is ##\mathbb{Q}## alone not cyclic?
Well suppose ##\mathbb{Q}## were cyclic. Then ##\mathbb{Q} = \langle \frac{p}{q} \rangle##, where we assume the fraction is in reduced form. Then it must be the case that for some ##k \in \mathbb{Z}## we have ##\frac{p}{2q} = k \cdot \frac{p}{q}##. For this to be the case ##k = \frac{1}{2}##, contradicting that fact that ##k## is an integer.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K