Why is the curl of H zero in a plasma and where does the factor of me come from?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical and mathematical reasoning behind the curl of the magnetic field intensity vector, H, being zero in a plasma context. Participants are exploring the implications of this assumption and the origin of the factor of electron mass, m_e, in related equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the physical and mathematical justification for the assumption that the curl of H is zero. They are also investigating the derivation of equations involving electric field E and velocity V, particularly focusing on the relationship between these quantities and the factor of m_e.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and references to external resources for better understanding. There is a mix of interpretations regarding the assumptions made, and some participants are attempting to derive relationships between the variables involved, though no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information available for discussion. The exploration of vector calculus concepts, such as curl, is also noted as a relevant aspect of the problem.

PhDeezNutz
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Homework Statement
I'm following my instructor's notes and they read as follows

"In a plasma all the electrons are free. Then

$$\vec{J_f} = \sigma \vec{E} = Nq\vec{V} $$

and

$$m_e \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} = - q \vec{E}$$

I don't see how this is possible unless we assume

$$\nabla \times \vec{H} = \vec{0}$$

per Maxwell's Equations. And I have no idea why that would physically substantiated.
Relevant Equations
$$\nabla \times \vec{H} = \vec{J_f} + \epsilon \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}$$
If we assume ##\nabla \times \vec{H} = \vec{0}## (again I have no idea why this would be true)

$$\vec{0} = \sigma \vec{E} + \epsilon \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}$$

$$\vec{0} = \sigma \vec{E} + \epsilon Nq\frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t}$$

$$-\sigma \vec{E} = \epsilon Nq\frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t}$$

multiply through by ##\frac{q}{\sigma}##

$$-q\vec{E} = \frac{\epsilon N q^2}{\sigma} \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t}$$

I guess my question is two fold

1) Why is ##\nabla \times \vec{H} = \vec{0}## physically or mathematically ?

2) Where does the factor of ##m_e## come from?

As always any help is appreciated.
 
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I think it has something to do with assuming the exponential form of ##\vec{E}## and thus ##\vec{V}## hence their derivatives will be scalar multiples of each other.

Let me take a crack at it. (And the thing is I don't even think we need to invoke Ampere's Law, at least not directly)

$$\vec{E} = \frac{Nq}{\sigma} \vec{V}$$

$$\frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t} = \frac{Nq}{\sigma} \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} $$

Assuming the form

$$\vec{E} = \vec{E_0} e^{i\left(\vec{k} \cdot {x} - \omega t \right)}$$ the time derivative is merely ##- i \omega \vec{E}##

So we have$$-i \omega \vec{E} = \frac{Nq}{\sigma} \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t}$$

$$\frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} = \frac{-i \omega \sigma}{Nq} \vec{E} $$

Multiply through by ##m_e## we get$$ m_e \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} = m_e \frac{-i \omega \sigma}{Nq} \vec{E} $$

Which is close but not quite the answer I'm looking for

The answer I'm looking for is

$$m_e \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} = - q \vec{E}$$

(Which is reasonable since it's essentially saying Force = Force)

I guess somehow

$$m_e \frac{-i \omega \sigma}{Nq} = q$$

But I'm not seeing it.

Any ideas? Thanks for the help in advanced.

Also the factor of ##i## is concerning, I don't see how to get rid of it. It seems inevitable when taking the time derivative of a wave form.
 
Last edited:
As an aside, I just found this 3blue1brown video on curl and divergence that can help to understand the meaning behind these vector field operations:

 

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