Why is the density of photons in the Eddington Limit derived this way?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the formula for the Eddington limit in astrophysics, specifically focusing on the density of photons in an accretion flow towards a compact object. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and conceptual understanding of photon density in relation to luminosity and energy per photon.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of the photon density formula, questioning the division by ##ch\nu## despite it being dimensionally correct.
  • Another participant clarifies that ##L_{\nu}## represents the flux of energy, not the flux of photons, and emphasizes the need to divide by the energy per photon to convert to a photon flux.
  • A different participant adds that to convert to a density of particles per volume, one must also divide by the particle speed, suggesting a parallel with a flux of bullets for clarity.
  • This participant also proposes that understanding the Eddington limit in terms of momentum flux per area may provide a simpler perspective than focusing solely on photon flux or density.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of restating the Eddington limit in terms of photons, indicating a potential point of contention in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity and necessity of the derivation process, with some agreeing on the mathematical steps while others question the focus on photon density versus momentum flux. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understand the Eddington limit.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between energy flux and photon flux, as well as the implications of particle speed in the derivation. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding the Eddington limit, with no consensus on the most effective explanatory framework.

Aleolomorfo
Messages
70
Reaction score
4
I am studyng accretion process on "Astrophysics in a nutshell" by Dan Maoz and I have some doubts about the derivation of the formula for the eddington limit. I understand what the edding limit is. The accretion rate cannot be arbitrarly large. The starting point is to consider an electron at a radius ##r## in an ionized gas that is taking part in an accretion flow towards some compact object. The accretion flow produces a luminosity per frequency interval ##L_\nu##, and therefore the density of photons with energy ##h\nu## at ##r## is:
$$n_{ph}=\frac{L_\nu}{4\pi r^2 ch\nu}$$
I do not understand why the density of photons is written in this way. I see that it is dimensionally correct but I do not see the reason.
##\frac{L_\nu}{4\pi r^2}## is the flux of photons with frequency ##\nu## but I do not understand why it is divided by ##ch\nu##.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
L_{\nu} is not the flux of photons, it is the flux of energy. So you have to divide by the energy per photon to get the flux of photons.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: stefan r
Yes, you first have to divide by the energy per photon, h*nu, to get it into a number flux (and I believe you mean flux per area), but then you also have to divide by the particle speed to get it into a density of particles per volume. You'd have to do the same thing with a flux of bullets. If you still don't see it, it might help to take the c up onto the left side of the equation, and think about what a number density times a speed is.

However, I would also point out that the easiest way to understand the Eddington limit is to think in terms of the momentum flux per area, not the photon flux and not the photon density. This is because to get the radiative force per gram, you simply take the momentum flux per area, and multiply by the cross section per gram. That's the simplest way to see what is going on.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Aleolomorfo
Aleolomorfo said:
therefore the density of photons with energy hνhνh\nu at rrr is:
Is there any special point in restating the Eddington limit in terms of photons?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K