Why Is the Fundamental Group of a Torus Described as Z+Z Instead of ZxZ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the fundamental group of the torus, specifically why it is described as Z+Z in literature instead of ZxZ. Participants explore the application of the Seifert-Van Kampen theorem and the implications of group theory in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant uses the Seifert-Van Kampen theorem to calculate the fundamental group of the torus, suggesting it is isomorphic to ZxZ.
  • Another participant clarifies that the free product of Z*Z is not isomorphic to either Z+Z or ZxZ, asserting that Z*Z is nonabelian.
  • A different participant questions the application of the Seifert-Van Kampen theorem, suggesting that a special open cover is necessary for T^2 and that the fundamental group can be computed directly from the product of the fundamental groups of its components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of the Seifert-Van Kampen theorem and the nature of the fundamental group of the torus. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the fundamental group in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made in applying the Seifert-Van Kampen theorem and the definitions of the groups involved. The discussion highlights the need for clarity on the types of products and sums in group theory.

andlook
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Hi

So I've been using Seifert-Van Kampen (SVK) to calculate the fundamental group of the torus. I haven't done any formal group theory, hence my problem ...

I have T^2=(S^1)x(S^1)

If A= S^1, B=S^1, A intersection B is 0. And T^2 = union of A and B.

Then fundamental group of (A intersection B) = 0

And I already have fundamental group of (S^1) = Z

Then using SVK the fundamental group of the torus is the free product of S^1 with S^1 over 0.

Which I think is isomorphic to the ZxZ.

In the literature this is written as the direct sum of Z+Z. Why is this the direct sum and not the cross product?

Since I don't know group theory better I don't know if it is possible to just ask the simpler: Why is the free product of Z*Z is isomorphic to direct sum Z+Z not the product of ZxZ.
 
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Three comments:

1) If you have a finite collection of abelian groups, then their direct product and direct sum are the same.

2) The free product of Z*Z is not isomorphic to either Z\oplusZ or ZxZ; in fact, Z*Z is nonabelian (as most free products are).

3) SVK is unnecessary for computing pi_1 of the torus. Instead one can just use the fact that pi_1(XxY) = pi_1(X) x pi_1(Y), which is easy to prove to directly. If you insist on using SVK, then you must be doing something wrong: pi_1 of the torus isn't Z*Z -- it's Z*Z modulo a certain normal subgroup.
 
I just noticed that you provided your working for how you applied SVK. What do you mean when you say "A= S^1, B=S^1"? I can't put any meaning to this assignment that gives us "T^2 = union of A and B".

In any case, SVK needs a special open cover of T^2, not an arbitrary cover.
 
thanks for your help on this,

I will work on this and reply later
 

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