Fundamental Group of the Torus-Figure 8

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the homomorphism induced by the inclusion of the Figure 8 into the Torus, specifically addressing its surjectivity. Participants explore the fundamental groups of both structures and their relationships, engaging in technical reasoning about homotopies and algebraic properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the fundamental group of the Figure 8 is isomorphic to the free product of two generators, while the fundamental group of the Torus is isomorphic to the Cartesian product of two copies of the integers.
  • Another participant suggests representing the Torus as a square with identifications, proposing that any loop in the square can be pushed onto the boundary.
  • A participant questions whether any loop on the boundary corresponds to a loop of the Figure 8, leading to the assertion that the induced homomorphism is surjective.
  • Further discussion includes the idea that the Torus can be viewed as a Figure 8 with a disk attached, and references Van Kampen's Theorem as relevant to the argument.
  • There is a suggestion to consider similar ideas for tori with more than one handle, indicating a broader context for the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the relationship between the Figure 8 and the Torus, with some proposing that the induced homomorphism is surjective while others explore different representations and implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and completeness of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific assumptions about homotopies and the properties of fundamental groups, which may not be universally accepted or fully explored within the discussion. The application of Van Kampen's Theorem is mentioned but not elaborated upon, leaving potential gaps in understanding.

sammycaps
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So I'm revamping the question I had posted here, after a bit of work.

I'm concerned with the homomorphism induced by the inclusion of the Figure 8 into the Torus, and why it is surjective. There seem to be a lot of semi-explanations, but I just wanted to see if the one I thought of makes sense.

So, we know that the fundamental group of the Figure 8 is isomorphic to the free product on 2 generators (i.e. of two copies of the integers), and the fundamental group on the torus is isomorphic to the cartesian product of two copies of the integers.

So, I don't know if there is a homomorphism j* such that this diagram commutes, for f and g isomorphisms from above, but if there is then this diagram commutes,

\pi1(Figure 8) \stackrel{i*}{\longrightarrow} \pi1(Torus)
\:\:\:\:\:\:\:f\downarrow\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:g\downarrow
\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:Z*Z\:\:\:\:\stackrel{j*}{\longrightarrow} \:Z×Z

And then we can do something from there.

Is that going somewhere, or not at all?
 
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would n't you represent a torus as a square with identifications, then push off any loop in the square onto the boundary?
 
mathwonk said:
would n't you represent a torus as a square with identifications, then push off any loop in the square onto the boundary?

So, any loop is homotopic to a loop on the boundary? And then any loop on the boundary is a loop of the figure 8? So then would we say the homomorphism induced by inclusion is i*([a])=[i\circ a]=[a], so then this induced homomorphism is surjective?
 
sammycaps said:
So, any loop is homotopic to a loop on the boundary? And then any loop on the boundary is a loop of the figure 8? So then would we say the homomorphism induced by inclusion is i*([a])=[i\circ a]=[a], so then this induced homomorphism is surjective?

you can think of the torus as a figure 8 with a disk attached. The boundary of the disk is attached to the loop aba^{-1}b^{-1} on the figure 8. This is what Mathwonk is saying.

Van kampen's Theorem then gives you the result you are looking for.

BTW: Think about the same ideas for tori with more than one handle.
 
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