Why is the speed of light exactly exactly 299 792 458 meters per second ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why the speed of light is defined as exactly 299,792,458 meters per second. Participants explore the theoretical, definitional, and philosophical aspects of this constant, touching on its implications in physics and the nature of measurement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether there is a published theory that explains why the speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 meters per second.
  • Others point out that the length of a meter is defined based on the distance light travels in a specific time frame, establishing a direct relationship between the speed of light and the definition of the meter.
  • One participant notes that the speed of light was defined in 1983 based on precise experimental measurements, which had become limited by the uncertainty in previous standards for the meter.
  • Maxwell's equations are mentioned as a means to compute the speed of light, but some participants argue that these equations do not explain why the speed is exactly what it is.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of fundamental constants, with some participants suggesting that their values are arbitrary and a result of our choice of units.
  • One participant expresses a belief that there must be an underlying reason for the speed of light being what it is, suggesting that it relates to deeper physical principles yet to be understood.
  • Concerns are raised about the philosophical implications of constants in physics, questioning why scientists accept these observed constants without a deeper theoretical explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether there is a fundamental explanation for the speed of light or if it is merely a result of definitional choices. Some agree on the arbitrariness of constants, while others believe there must be deeper reasons behind their values.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the physical reality behind observed constants, indicating that current discussions often rely on mathematical relationships rather than theoretical explanations.

  • #121
neopolitan,

It's true that the caesium 133 radiation has a wavelength, but the point is that you don't need to have measured that wavelength in order to define a second. You could define your unit of length to be anything at all you liked but the second's definition would still be valid and unaltered.

In fact, you could define a metre to be 299792458/9192631770 wavelengths of caesium 133 radiation, and in some ways that would be a better definition because all you have to do is count wavelengths without needing to have a definition of time-units. This would make length "independent" of time in terms of its definition considered in isolation. Of course, considering this definition of distance and the definition of time simultaneously shows the two are linked, but logically you can arbitrarily choose either one to be independent and then the other becomes dependent.

To put it another way, you have one degree of freedom in choosing how to measure either time or distance, but once you've made that choice then the method of the other measurement is effectively fixed apart from a conversion factor c.

The spacetime view is that time and space are just different dimensions of a unified structure and c is just the conversion factor that links the two together.
 
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  • #122
Before this ends up in the bleachers and to ease my guilt for taking this beyond the lucidity of DaleSpam's and D H's answers (#14, #26, #55), let me attempt to redeem myself with what appears to me to be a consensus.

First a point of clarification: a, the, any "definition" of a second does not require any reference to the dimension Length.

A definition of any quantity of dimension can be expressed in two ways: as a portion or sum of some other predefined quantity of the same dimension - an hour is sixty minutes, a minute is sixty seconds, etc.- or, as a portion or sum of a physical "action" of known (experimentally verified) value which again need not have any reference to any other dimension.
For a unit Time, the latter is a repeatable, finite and extremely accurate definition when it is defined as the atomic "action" corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of cesium 133 and the second is the sum of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation of this action.
It is important to note that the temporal constancy of this action is irrelevant to the "definition" of the unit second, but crucial to the validity of theory of the action.

With respect to my comments regarding a "measure" of time being a comparative measure of Length, I will give way to DrGreg's far more concise and enlightening post above regarding degrees of freedom.(#121)

Now, at the risk of this going out of the park, I will offer one more point that is crucial to understanding the role of dimensionless constants in the development of physics.
A point that comes back to the OP question regarding "Why" light or any physical constant is in fact - Constant. We can rationalize the numerical values associated with a constant and make every possible representation that proves, empirically, its constancy. But this does not answer Why.
To answer Why, we must look beyond kinematical descriptions of dimensions to dynamics. What is the dynamic law, theory or model from which constancy arises as a natural indeed necessary consequence? This is a/the fundamental quest of physics. Until a theory can "give rise" to the dimensionless constants, we are still dealing with shadows.
 
  • #123
DrGreg said:
The spacetime view is that time and space are just different dimensions of a unified structure and c is just the conversion factor that links the two together.

That's the one I would go with then :smile:

cheers,

neopolitan
 

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