Why is there an 8 instead of a 4 in Einstein's gravity formulation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the difference in constants between Einstein's formulation of gravity and Newton's gravitational equation, specifically addressing why the factor of 4 in Newton's equation corresponds to an 8 in Einstein's equation. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to the geometry of spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the analogy between Einstein's equation and Newton's, highlighting the roles of the metric tensor and energy-momentum tensor.
  • Another participant explains that Newton's equation operates in three-dimensional space, while Einstein's operates in four-dimensional space, leading to different geometric considerations.
  • A participant questions their own calculation of the surface volume of a 3-sphere, suggesting it may not align with the expected 8πR³.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the mathematical derivation of the constant in Einstein's equation, indicating that it arises from the relationship between the energy-momentum tensor and the curvature of spacetime.
  • One participant expresses a desire for an explanation of the physical significance of the factor of 8.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the calculations of geometric properties and the implications of the constants in the equations. There is no consensus on the physical significance of the factor of 8 or the correctness of the surface volume calculations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference external sources for mathematical derivations, indicating a reliance on definitions and interpretations that may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and differing interpretations of geometric properties.

snoopies622
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I have read that Einstein's formulation of gravity [tex]G_{ab}=\frac{8 \pi G}{c^4}T_{ab}[/tex] is analogous to the differential form of Newton's version [tex]\nabla ^2 \phi = 4 \pi G \rho[/tex] with the metric tensor and energy-momentum tensor in the modern form playing the same roles as gravitational potential and density in the classical one, respectively.

My question: why did the 4 become an 8?
 
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In simple, though rough terms, Newton's version is in a 3 dimensional space and measures the field at the surface of a sphere and that area is given by 4\pi r^2.

Einstein's equation is in a 4 dimensional space and measures the field at the surface of a 4-sphere and that area is given by 8\pi r^3.
 
I may be miscalculating but I'm getting the 'surface volume' of a 3-sphere to be [tex]2 \pi ^2 R^3[/tex] (instead of [tex]8 \pi R^3[/tex]).
 
Last edited:
Hi snoopies622! :smile:

(have a pi: π and a rho: ρ :wink:)
snoopies622 said:
I may be miscalculating but I'm getting the 'surface volume' of a 3-sphere to be [tex]2 \pi ^2 R^3[/tex] (instead of [tex]8 \pi R^3[/tex]).

Yes, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-sphere#Volume_of_the_n-ball, the 4-ball has volume π2r4/2, and surface area 2π2r3

(the surface area is always n/r times the volume of the n-ball)
My question: why did the 4 become an 8?

The mathematical reason:

we require R00 = 4πGρ.

But R00 = constant(T00 - 1/2 T g00),

and T00 - 1/2 T g00 = ρc4 - 1/2 ρc4,

so the constant must be 8πG :smile:

(i got this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Field_Equations_(EFE)#The_correspondence_principle :redface:)

… but I'd still like someone to explain the physical significance of this! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks, tiny-tim. I'll spend some time looking through that Wikipedia derivation.
 

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