Why isn't Mercury as red as Mars, even though it has more iron?

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    Mars Rust
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences in surface coloration between Mercury and Mars, particularly focusing on the presence of iron and its oxidation states. Participants explore the implications of iron content, the role of oxygen in rust formation, and the geological and atmospheric conditions of both planets.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Mars' red surface is due to Fe2O3 rust, questioning the source of the necessary oxygen for this oxidation process.
  • Others argue that oxygen is abundant in the solar system and does not require life to be present, as it can be released from compounds through chemical processes.
  • A participant clarifies that molecular oxygen is necessary for certain types of rust, implying that life may have played a role in its production on Mars.
  • There is a correction regarding the type of iron oxide present on Mars, with a claim that FeO does not contribute to the red coloration.
  • Some participants note that Mercury's higher iron content should theoretically make it redder, but question how the distribution of iron affects surface coloration.
  • Discussion includes the role of Mars' thin atmosphere in facilitating oxidation processes compared to Mercury's extremely low atmospheric pressure.
  • One participant references geological formations on Earth as analogs for understanding Martian iron oxides, suggesting a historical presence of life on Mars.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of water and oxygen availability in the oxidation processes on both planets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of oxygen and life in the oxidation processes on Mars and Mercury. There is no consensus on the reasons for the differences in surface coloration between the two planets, and multiple competing explanations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of rust and oxidation states, as well as the unresolved nature of how atmospheric conditions influence these processes on different planets.

bbbl67
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Mars' red surface is said to be FeO rust. Rust requires Oxygen to exist. Are there any theories about where that original oxygen came from? I'm obviously trying to fish for possibilities of life in the past.
 
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Oxygen, as one of the main products of stellar fusion, is among the most abundant elements in the solar system, after hydrogen and helium. It's been like that even when the solar system was but a wee lil' cloud of gas.
So it doesn't need life to be produced. And in fact, life can't produce it, because it's not running on nuclear reactions. What life can do, is separate oxygen from molecules that the primordial oxygen bounded into. Hence it's considered that life is needed to maintain an oxygen-rich atmosphere, because without life it'd just stay bound in silicates, rust, and the entire remaining zoo of oxides and whatnot.
 
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I'm not talking about atomic oxygen but molecular oxygen. That does require life to produce.
 
bbbl67 said:
Mars' red surface is said to be FeO rust. Rust requires Oxygen to exist. Are there any theories about where that original oxygen came from? I'm obviously trying to fish for possibilities of life in the past.

Wrong. Not FeO. That´s the point.
Only Fe2O3 is red. The reduced iron oxides such as FeO and Fe3O4 are not red - they are colours like black, blue, green.
Where did the excess oxygen come from, to allow Mars to be red?
 
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Before life on Earth there was a small amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Life did not put it there. Chemistry and Physics put it there.
In water oxygen is bound to Hydrogen, and we know Mars had water and still has iced water.
Oxygen is not "produced" as such, it is unlocked from other compounds.
There are no molecules of oxygen, it is an element that can bond with other elements, some easier than others.

"Oxidisation" of a material does not require free-roaming oxygen gas, or trapped in water, it just needs for oxygen in whatever state or compound it is, to prefer bonding to another material.
Oxygen likes Iron a lot so the process is relatively fast.

...so no. Mars is not covered in rust due to the massive amount of life it must have had.
It just happens to be very rich in Iron compared to Earth.
 
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Dr-Flay said:
...so no. Mars is not covered in rust due to the massive amount of life it must have had.
It just happens to be very rich in Iron compared to Earth.
If that's the case, then wouldn't Mercury be even redder, as it is even richer in iron?
 
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bbbl67 said:
If that's the case, then wouldn't Mercury be even redder, as it is even richer in iron?

Why should all the iron in the core make Mercury's surface red?
 
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Not a bad question, better than the first actually, but as mentioned above, where the iron is makes a big difference.
Mars has a lot of iron-rich Basalt at the surface.
There is also still a very thin atmosphere which will move any remaining Oxygen around with wind-blown particles of Basalt encouraging a faster reaction.

The asteroid that Japan and NASA are doing experiments with has been found to have iced water on it.
If this asteroid also contains any iron, there is a good chance that if the 2 have been in contact you will find some rust there.

It turns out that H2O is not such a rare thing in the Universe (apparently the 3rd most common molecule), meaning that neither is Oxygen, but as noted earlier Hydrogen and Oxygen, like most of the periodic table are produced by stars.
Some elements come from the birth of stars, and some from the death of them.
Black holes pulse jets of freshly ground and recycled elements from their poles when they hit bursting point, like giant galactic farts of galaxy food.

Oxygen is 1 reason why biological life on this planet exists, not the other way round. Oxygen was here before any respiration or conversion by living things.
Plants do not make Oxygen, they unlock it.
H2O: 1 third of the water on this planet is Oxygen, 2 thirds Hydrogen. Put any Iron in it, and it will rust. However it will be slow depending on how much extra Oxygen is mixed in but not bonded.
In water with no extra Oxygen the process is very slow as Oxygen also very much likes to bond with Hydrogen. In fact it does it very easily, so it is a wrestling match between Hydrogen and Iron. This is why deep sea wrecks last so long.
However it will still Oxidise and go rusty.

There are many other Oxides and compounds with Oxygen that can be found here and off-planet.
Rust was on this planet long before the first life.
 
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Archean banded iron formations have been proposed as terrestrial analogue for Mars. (See Fallacaro, A. & Calvin W.M. Lake Superior Type Banded Iron Formations as an Analog to Mars 2002). The consensus is that these formed by precipitation from iron saturated sea water as a consequence of the Great Oxygenation Catastrophe, caused (probably) by the photosynthetic activity of cyanobacteria. Thus the presence of 'rust' on Mars is consistent with the presence of abundant life in the shallow seas of Noachian Mars. However, as noted by others, it is not the only way the iron oxides may have formed.

Side note: Expanding on Bandersnatch's comment re-the abundance of oxygen, it makes up almost 1/3 of the mass of the Earth and just under 1/2 of the mass of the crust. Most of it is bound up in silicates. The figures for Mars would be broadly similar.
 
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bbbl67 said:
If that's the case, then wouldn't Mercury be even redder, as it is even richer in iron?

The atmosphere on Mercury is measured in nanopascals. So the partial pressure of oxygen is 14 orders of magnitude lower than Earth. Here is a chart with mineral redox buffers for iron. At equator temperatures there is not enough oxygen to drive the reaction magnetite to hematite. On Mars the partial pressure of oxygen is much higher and there will be less solar radiation stripping ions off of minerals.

Dr-Flay said:
...
...so no. Mars is not covered in rust due to the massive amount of life it must have had.
It just happens to be very rich in Iron compared to Earth.

Are you sure? I thought rust makes its way to the oceans and sinks. It is water solubility combined with gravity. Then the oceanic plates sink too. Some parts of Earth's mountains are very red. Especially some of the old parts like Australia.
 
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