Why Proton-to-Neutron Conversion Does Not Happen All the Time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which a proton can convert into a neutron, particularly in the context of nuclear physics and beta decay. Participants explore the implications of energy conservation, the role of weak interactions, and the binding properties of nucleons in various states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a free proton cannot decay into a neutron due to energy conservation laws, while noting that this process can occur within a nucleus.
  • There is a discussion on the significance of the weak interaction's chiral nature and its implications for protons at high speeds, such as those in the LHC.
  • Concerns are raised about whether a proton is truly free or if it interacts with collider materials, impacting its decay processes.
  • Participants mention the role of the Pauli exclusion principle in the context of neutron interactions, highlighting that while deuterium (proton + neutron) is a bound state, two neutrons do not form a bound state.
  • Some participants discuss the strength of the neutron-neutron force compared to the neutron-proton force, indicating that the latter is stronger and leads to a bound state in deuterium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which protons can convert to neutrons, the implications of weak interactions, and the binding properties of nucleons. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the treatment of hadronization of quarks at high energies and the complexities involved in calculations at energies greater than the QCD scale.

RedX
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A free proton cannot turn into a neutron (via beta decay) because the neutron is heavier and that would violate energy conservation laws.

However, in the nucleus, a proton can turn into a neutron (and eject a positron in the process). Why doesn't this happen all the time? Reducing the charge on your nucleus seems to lower the electromagnetic energy, and the nucleon-nucleon strong force is the same for protons and neutrons so that doesn't change. So I'm seeing nothing but good things from this process.

Also I noticed that in the chiral Lagrangian the weak interaction is almost left chiral, e.g.:

\mathcal L=\bar{n}\gamma^\mu(1-g_A\gamma_5)p W^{-}_\mu

where g_A is the numeric value 1.27 and p is the proton Dirac field and n is the neutron Dirac field and W is the W-boson.

So 1.27 is almost close to 1, in which case it looks like the weak interaction for leptons. What is the significance of this? Does this mean for protons traveling at high speeds, such as the LHC, if the proton is right-handed, it will not undergo a weak interaction?
 
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A free proton at rest cannot decay into a neutron. A 7 TeV proton, at rest in its own restframe, cannot decay into a neutron either.
Bob S
 
Bob S said:
A free proton at rest cannot decay into a neutron. A 7 TeV proton, at rest in its own restframe, cannot decay into a neutron either.
Bob S

Is the proton really free or can it interact with the collider-ring material?

Also, at energies greater than .2 GeV (the QCD scale), how is the hadronization of quarks treated? With lattice theory? Because for energies below .2 GeV, a simple effective Lagrangian can be built (the chiral Lagrangian) that describes hadrons in a very simple manner. But 7 TeV is much higher, so I don't even know how to begin doing calculations on protons at that energy.
 
RedX said:
Is the proton really free or can it interact with the collider-ring material?

It's free. If it interacts with the collider ring material it stops going around.
 
RedX said:
However, in the nucleus, a proton can turn into a neutron (and eject a positron in the process). Why doesn't this happen all the time? Reducing the charge on your nucleus seems to lower the electromagnetic energy, and the nucleon-nucleon strong force is the same for protons and neutrons so that doesn't change. So I'm seeing nothing but good things from this process.
Neutrons are fermions and thus there is pauli exclusion to consider as well. For the simplest example, deuterium (proton + neutron) is a bound state, but neutron + neutron is not a bound state.
 
JustinLevy said:
Neutrons are fermions and thus there is pauli exclusion to consider as well. For the simplest example, deuterium (proton + neutron) is a bound state, but neutron + neutron is not a bound state.

Can't one neutron have up spin, and the other down spin?

A free neutron is heavy so it breaks up into a proton which is lighter. In atoms, protons can turn into neutrons, and the only driving force seems to be to relieve the electromagnetic forces.
 
RedX said:
Can't one neutron have up spin, and the other down spin?

Yes, but the dineutron still isn't bound.
 
It turns out that the n-n force in the triplet, spin 1 case is a bit too weak to bind two neutrons. The spin 1 n-p force is a bit stronger and has a bound state, the deuteron, which is weakly bound.
 

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