News Why we need a one world government

[Physics-Learner]

yes, societies that had not yet reached those levels. vulcan was one society that had.

 

[Physics-Learner]

Yet, you had the Borg, Romulans, and others...

dont forget the klingons - LOL

 

[nismaratwork]

yes, societies that had not yet reached those levels. vulcan was one society that had.

...True... but they still had the representation of their darker side: The Romulans.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation... I may spontaneously grow a pocket protector.

 

[nismaratwork]

dont forget the klingons - LOL

Yeah, but they evolved over the course of the series... they're a better example for your point of view. Heh...

 

[Physics-Learner]

i just watched one of the dvds with a bunch of conversation on it. one of the bigwigs chose the name romulans, because his son was studying the roman empire at the time - LOL.

 

[nismaratwork]

i just watched one of the dvds with a bunch of conversation on it. one of the bigwigs chose the name romulans, because his son was studying the roman empire at the time - LOL.

Heh, that makes sense... I always saw the Vulcan-Romulan dichotomy as a "what if" had the myth of Rome's origins had ended with founding of two great cities. Romulas and Remus both birthing an empire on radically different principles.

 

[Al68]

Maybe by that time we will have advanced enough as a race to apply communism properly.

How can involuntary servitude be "applied properly"? Are you saying that "advanced" means that every person volunteers?

There is a reason Stalin and Mao killed people by the millions: Communism is inherently incompatible with the existence of "non-communists" in society, and non-communists exist in society.

 

[nismaratwork]

How can involuntary servitude be "applied properly"? Are you saying that "advanced" means that every person volunteers?

There is a reason Stalin and Mao killed people by the millions: Communism is inherently incompatible with the existence of "non-communists" in society, and non-communists exist in society.

I agree completely.

 

[Gokul43201]

communism fails because it requires people to work hard for the benefit of strangers. but there is one very common instance where communism works great. anyone tell me what it is ?

A family?

as the fonz would say - correct-a-mundo.

How is the family unit an example of Communism? Even by your definition above, that would require family members to behave like strangers.

 

[nismaratwork]

How is the family unit an example of Communism? Even by your definition above, that would require family members to behave like strangers.

I could be wrong here, but I believe his point is that it works in the limited instance where you do NOT have to do this for strangers, but family instead.

 

[Gokul43201]

I could be wrong here, but I believe his point is that it works in the limited instance where you do NOT have to do this for strangers, but family instead.

But you have a very immediate and direct self interest derived from the well-being of your family. And you enter into a relationship voluntarily, not by fiat. That looks to me more like a capitalist organization than a communist one.

 

[nismaratwork]

But you have a very immediate and direct self interest derived from the well-being of your family. And you enter into a relationship voluntarily, not by fiat. That looks to me more like a capitalist organization than a communist one.

True, which is why I didn't exactly accept that analogy, but I still fail to see how this has to do with interacting with family as though they're strangers. I'd say it's more of a feudal system in most cases, but there is (in the USA) a legal merger of finance, property, and risk so... there are communist elements.

 

[Physics-Learner]

remember that communism is an economic policy. it is the opposite of capitalism.

in communism, the group gives on the basis of ability, and takes on the basis of need.

the dad and mom are the main givers, while everyone takes based upon their needs.

the children did not enter voluntarily. they were put there - LOL.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

dont forget the klingons - LOL

Don't forget the Ferengi either.

 

[nismaratwork]

Don't forget the Ferengi either.

I liked the original, whip-wielding, slave-trader Ferengi... the modern ones make no sense in a world of replicators!

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

And the Cardassians.

 

[Proton Soup]

Yet, you had the Borg, Romulans, and others...

borg are the ultimate in other-worldly governance

 

[nismaratwork]

borg are the ultimate in other-worldly governance

Agreed.

@FitIsAwesome: I always felt the Cardassians were a cheap version of the Romulans... not a fan of them!

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

I wonder what its like to be a borg...

 

[Perspicacity]

Cardassians were lame—but Quark was by far the best Star Trek character ever.

 

[nismaratwork]

Cardassians were lame—but Quark was by far the best Star Trek character ever.

Not in small part to the immense talents of the actor, and the writers. I never understood why people didn't seem to enjoy DS-9... I found it to be a change of pace, but one that grew on me.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

We are the Borg. You will be assimilated.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

We are the Ferengi. You will give us your money.

 

[Al68]

But you have a very immediate and direct self interest derived from the well-being of your family. And you enter into a relationship voluntarily, not by fiat. That looks to me more like a capitalist organization than a communist one.

That's exactly right. Voluntary vs. forced is the proper distinction to make, at least politically, since that's the reason for opposition to communism.

And while it's true that children are "forced" into the relationship, using the word communism for that makes about as much sense as using a words like "slaves" or "prisoners" to refer to children. Technically true, yes, but kinda silly.

 

[nismaratwork]

That's exactly right. Voluntary vs. forced is the proper distinction to make, at least politically, since that's the reason for opposition to communism.

And while it's true that children are "forced" into the relationship, using the word communism for that makes about as much sense as using a words like "slaves" or "prisoners" to refer to children. Technically true, yes, but kinda silly.

I don't know... it's pretty literal in many parts of the world unfortunately... and not uncommon at all. I take your general point however.

 

[nismaratwork]

We are the Ferengi. You will give us your money.

Right? Assimilated..

"give us your cash"



I love the retcon to explain that "gold pressed latinum" was somehow special and not replicator friendly.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

I love the retcon to explain that "gold pressed latinum" was somehow special and not replicator friendly.

Latinum is supposed to one of the only things, or the only thing, that cannot be replicated. I'm not really sure what the gold is for, since I think it can be replicated.

Right? Assimilated..

"give us your cash"

The Ferengi have discovered how to rewrite the Borg code. They control the Borg now. Give the Ferengi your money or they will command the Borg to assimilate you.

 

[Al68]

The Ferengi have discovered how to rewrite the Borg code. They control the Borg now. Give the Ferengi your money or they will command the Borg to assimilate you.

You forgot to tell people how to send the money. The Ferengi accept Paypal sent to the following e-mail address: Al68@yahoo.com.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

You forgot to tell people how to send the money. The Ferengi accept Paypal sent to the following e-mail address: Al68@yahoo.com.

Arg!


Well, you'll get a lot of spam now.

 

[Physics-Learner]

That's exactly right. Voluntary vs. forced is the proper distinction to make, at least politically, since that's the reason for opposition to communism.

And while it's true that children are "forced" into the relationship, using the word communism for that makes about as much sense as using a words like "slaves" or "prisoners" to refer to children. Technically true, yes, but kinda silly.

did you read my post ? communism is From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

exactly what a family unit does - at least a good mom and dad.

 

[nismaratwork]

You forgot to tell people how to send the money. The Ferengi accept Paypal sent to the following e-mail address: Al68@yahoo.com.

Be honest now, if I sent you money, you'd probably faint from shock.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

I wonder if that email is valid.



I didn't know the Ferengi use email.

 

[Al68]

Be honest now, if I sent you money, you'd probably faint from shock.

That's a chance I'm willing to take. Please make it as shocking as possible.

 

[Al68]

did you read my post ? communism is From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

exactly what a family unit does - at least a good mom and dad.

Sure, I agreed that the definition was technically correct, analogous to using the word "prisoner" to refer to children.

 

[nismaratwork]

Sure, I agreed that the definition was technically correct, analogous to using the word "prisoner" to refer to children.

Are you familiar with a form of indentured servitude of children in regions with high poverty?

Oh, and I would not prepare for a shock, but I do appreciate how game you are.

 

[Al68]

Are you familiar with a form of indentured servitude of children in regions with high poverty?

Yes, I should have specified children generally, not a specific case. There are children who really are slaves, prisoners, and communists, but those words aren't normally used to refer to all children, even if technically true.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes, I should have specified children generally, not a specific case. There are children who really are slaves, prisoners, and communists, but those words aren't normally used to refer to all children, even if technically true.

Fair enough, just making sure... not everyone does know.

 

[Physics-Learner]

the children don't need to be slaves. communism is not totalitarian. it is simply an economic policy where you give what you can, and take what you need.

the reason it works in a family is because there are emotional ties to one another. the reason it does not work in a country is because there are not those emotional ties to one another.

 

[nismaratwork]

the children don't need to be slaves. communism is not totalitarian. it is simply an economic policy where you give what you can, and take what you need.

the reason it works in a family is because there are emotional ties to one another. the reason it does not work in a country is because there are not those emotional ties to one another.

That explanation works best for my taste, and dovetails with the dysfunctional families as well.

 

[Forestman]

Perhaps communism on the scale of the world would work if people were genetically engineered to be extremely altruistic and non competitive. Then there would be no conflict between the individual and the group. Once it is perfected the government should provide genetic engineering for everyones future offspring, otherwise a rich superclass of people will be created because only the rich will be able to afford to genetically engineer their offspring.

Also if the worlds population was brought down to at least a billion then there would be enough resources to go around. I don't mean killing people, just not allowing everyone to have children. And for those who would be allowed to have children; only allowing them to have one.

 

[drankin]

Perhaps communism on the scale of the world would work if people were genetically engineered to be extremely altruistic and non competitive. Then there would be no conflict between the individual and the group. Once it is perfected the government should provide genetic engineering for everyones future offspring, otherwise a rich superclass of people will be created because only the rich will be able to afford to genetically engineer their offspring.

Also if the worlds population was brought down to at least a billion then there would be enough resources to go around. I don't mean killing people, just not allowing everyone to have children. And for those who would be allowed to have children; only allowing them to have one.

Where do you get these ideas anyway? Do you realize how many people would die fighting to prevent such a thing?

 

[Forestman]

Genetic engineering of people is going to happen whether we like it or not, therefore we might as well make sure that it turns out for the best.

If the population of the Earth is not lowered, then in the end we well all be living in poverty.

 

[drankin]

Genetic engineering of people is going to happen whether we like it or not, therefore we might as well make sure that it turns out for the best.

If the population of the Earth is not lowered, then in the end we well all be living in poverty.

You have been watching/reading too much sci-fi.

Where's Evo?!

 

[Forestman]

I understand that things like only allowing people to have one child or none at all sounds really terrible, but what choice do we have. It won't be long now and the Earth will have around 9 billion people on it. The Earth just does not have the room or the resources to take care of 9 billion people. And it won't stop there, but it will just keep growing. Not to mention the devastating effects that it will have on our climate. Controlling the population is far more humane than the majority of the worlds people living in poverty and disease. Not to mention the war that it would breed.

 

[nismaratwork]

You have been watching/reading too much sci-fi.

Where's Evo?!

OK... we're in perfect agreement two posts running now...

Evo... HELP! "I scared!"

 

[nismaratwork]

I have a new answer to the title of this thread:

Why...?: Because life isn't complex enough, we need a chaotic period during which nations guarding stocks of weaponry ranging from conventional to nuclear no longer focus on guarding those stocks... or use them.

 

[drankin]

OK... we're in perfect agreement two posts running now...

I think we agree more than we disagree, actually.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think we agree more than we disagree, actually.

It does seem that way lately, doesn't it?

 

[Forestman]

You have been watching/reading too much sci-fi.

Where's Evo?!

You make to many assumptions.

 

[nismaratwork]

You make to many assumptions.

Please list them.