Why we need a one world government

[Physics-Learner]

it is so common that just about all of us experienced it.

 

[dacruick]

Not a clue, but I'll bite too.

@dacruick: It doesn't govern the future, but it's a good object lesson(s) in this case. I'm not looking at just 100 years either... attempts at unification of even marginally dispirate elements (China for example) is violent and maintained by the threat of vioilence.

Violence when there is no other option. But can't you imagine a society at some point in the future with unified goals? Maybe a society where religion is a non-factor? Or where there is nothing to fight over? I am clearly being an idealist, but it is a possibility.

And yes, I do think religion promotes segregation, hatred, and oppresses change. It had its place many years ago when states needed money, to be unified under the same beliefs, and organization. What better way to do that than with an all powerful entity. But now with the amount of communication and organization that we can achieve, religion is a detriment more than a tool.

 

[dacruick]

it is so common that just about all of us experienced it.

A family?

 

[nismaratwork]

it is so common that just about all of us experienced it.

Academic institutions... in theory?

 

[nismaratwork]

Violence when there is no other option. But can't you imagine a society at some point in the future with unified goals? Maybe a society where religion is a non-factor? Or where there is nothing to fight over? I am clearly being an idealist, but it is a possibility.

I can't imagine human nature changing so radically without tragedy preceeding it. I'm sorry, I'm no pessimist, but I'm also no idealist... I can only imagine the form, not the structure of that kind of world. It seems like a world we see in dreams, that looks perfect, but it's not to scale... not liveable. I can imagine such a world, I just can't imagine people being the ones living in it.

And yes, I do think religion promotes segregation, hatred, and oppresses change. It had its place many years ago when states needed money, to be unified under the same beliefs, and organization. What better way to do that than with an all powerful entity. But now with the amount of communication and organization that we can achieve, religion is a detriment more than a tool.

I'm not sure... I used to believe as you do, and I'm about as religious as a lump of clay. Still, some cultures are inextricably linked to religion, and people seem to need it. I don't know that religion HAS to result in conflict, but it makes for a dandy justification... that's clear enough. As a cause... yeah, it happens, but it's also a driving force for change at a certain level in the evolutio of a society.

 

[Physics-Learner]

A family?

as the fonz would say - correct-a-mundo.

give to the pot based on ability, take from the pot based on need.

 

[nismaratwork]

as the fonz would say - correct-a-mundo.

give to the pot based on ability, take from the pot based on need.

...And how many families don't have a clear leader or leaders, and how many are dysfunctional from the POV of Communism? A lot I'd say...

 

[Physics-Learner]

well, in star trek, they managed it - mainly due to the fact that a person's needs were taken care of, so there was no reason to fight or control.

think about heaven and eternal happiness. if that really existed, you would already have anything that you needed.

 

[Physics-Learner]

...And how many families don't have a clear leader or leaders, and how many are dysfunctional from the POV of Communism? A lot I'd say...

yes, that is why i said most of us. if the family is dysfunctional enough, it can still be a bad situation.

 

[nismaratwork]

well, in star trek, they managed it - mainly due to the fact that a person's needs were taken care of, so there was no reason to fight or control.

think about heaven and eternal happiness. if that really existed, you would already have anything that you needed.

Yet, you had the Borg, Romulans, and others...

 

[Physics-Learner]

yes, societies that had not yet reached those levels. vulcan was one society that had.

 

[Physics-Learner]

Yet, you had the Borg, Romulans, and others...

dont forget the klingons - LOL

 

[nismaratwork]

yes, societies that had not yet reached those levels. vulcan was one society that had.

...True... but they still had the representation of their darker side: The Romulans.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation... I may spontaneously grow a pocket protector.

 

[nismaratwork]

dont forget the klingons - LOL

Yeah, but they evolved over the course of the series... they're a better example for your point of view. Heh...

 

[Physics-Learner]

i just watched one of the dvds with a bunch of conversation on it. one of the bigwigs chose the name romulans, because his son was studying the roman empire at the time - LOL.

 

[nismaratwork]

i just watched one of the dvds with a bunch of conversation on it. one of the bigwigs chose the name romulans, because his son was studying the roman empire at the time - LOL.

Heh, that makes sense... I always saw the Vulcan-Romulan dichotomy as a "what if" had the myth of Rome's origins had ended with founding of two great cities. Romulas and Remus both birthing an empire on radically different principles.

 

[Al68]

Maybe by that time we will have advanced enough as a race to apply communism properly.

How can involuntary servitude be "applied properly"? Are you saying that "advanced" means that every person volunteers?

There is a reason Stalin and Mao killed people by the millions: Communism is inherently incompatible with the existence of "non-communists" in society, and non-communists exist in society.

 

[nismaratwork]

How can involuntary servitude be "applied properly"? Are you saying that "advanced" means that every person volunteers?

There is a reason Stalin and Mao killed people by the millions: Communism is inherently incompatible with the existence of "non-communists" in society, and non-communists exist in society.

I agree completely.

 

[Gokul43201]

communism fails because it requires people to work hard for the benefit of strangers. but there is one very common instance where communism works great. anyone tell me what it is ?

A family?

as the fonz would say - correct-a-mundo.

How is the family unit an example of Communism? Even by your definition above, that would require family members to behave like strangers.

 

[nismaratwork]

How is the family unit an example of Communism? Even by your definition above, that would require family members to behave like strangers.

I could be wrong here, but I believe his point is that it works in the limited instance where you do NOT have to do this for strangers, but family instead.

 

[Gokul43201]

I could be wrong here, but I believe his point is that it works in the limited instance where you do NOT have to do this for strangers, but family instead.

But you have a very immediate and direct self interest derived from the well-being of your family. And you enter into a relationship voluntarily, not by fiat. That looks to me more like a capitalist organization than a communist one.

 

[nismaratwork]

But you have a very immediate and direct self interest derived from the well-being of your family. And you enter into a relationship voluntarily, not by fiat. That looks to me more like a capitalist organization than a communist one.

True, which is why I didn't exactly accept that analogy, but I still fail to see how this has to do with interacting with family as though they're strangers. I'd say it's more of a feudal system in most cases, but there is (in the USA) a legal merger of finance, property, and risk so... there are communist elements.

 

[Physics-Learner]

remember that communism is an economic policy. it is the opposite of capitalism.

in communism, the group gives on the basis of ability, and takes on the basis of need.

the dad and mom are the main givers, while everyone takes based upon their needs.

the children did not enter voluntarily. they were put there - LOL.

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

dont forget the klingons - LOL

Don't forget the Ferengi either.

 

[nismaratwork]

Don't forget the Ferengi either.

I liked the original, whip-wielding, slave-trader Ferengi... the modern ones make no sense in a world of replicators!

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

And the Cardassians.

 

[Proton Soup]

Yet, you had the Borg, Romulans, and others...

borg are the ultimate in other-worldly governance

 

[nismaratwork]

borg are the ultimate in other-worldly governance

Agreed.

@FitIsAwesome: I always felt the Cardassians were a cheap version of the Romulans... not a fan of them!

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

I wonder what its like to be a borg...

 

[Perspicacity]

Cardassians were lame—but Quark was by far the best Star Trek character ever.