Why Were Copper Tools Developed Before Iron Tools?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Varanasi
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Copper Iron
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical development of copper tools before iron tools, focusing on the thermodynamic properties of the respective metal ores and the implications for smelting processes. Participants explore the reasons behind the earlier use of copper, considering factors such as Gibbs free energy and the energy requirements for smelting.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the Gibbs free energy values for the decomposition of copper and iron oxides suggest that iron requires more energy to smelt, leading to the need for hotter fires and more advanced technology.
  • Another participant questions the interpretation of the Gibbs free energy values, suggesting that the signs may be reversed and that the formation of oxides indicates a preference for combining rather than decomposing.
  • Some participants argue that the development of charcoal and bellows was necessary for iron smelting, implying that technological advancements played a role in the timeline of tool development.
  • One participant challenges the idea that temperature requirements are the primary factor, proposing that the speed of copper production in smelting may have been a more significant consideration than the energy requirement alone.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Gibbs free energy and its implications for smelting temperatures. There is no consensus on the reasons for the chronological development of copper versus iron tools, with multiple competing theories presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the assumptions made about Gibbs free energy and its relationship to temperature and energy requirements for smelting. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the implications of these thermodynamic principles.

Varanasi
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
1. Homework Statement
10) Both iron (III) oxide and copper (IV) oxide are mined for use as primary ores in the production of pure iron and copper respectively. Historically, the earliest use of copper tools appears to be around 4500 BC. Iron tools appear much later; European artifacts have been dated to around 1200BC. Assuming that both metal ores were easily found, why do you think that iron tools were developed more recently than copper tools?

a) CuO2 --> Cu + O2 ΔGº = -129 kJ/mole
b) Fe2O3 --> Fe + 3/2 O2 ΔGº =-742 kJ/mole

2. Its a thinking question.

3. I'm unsure exactly where to go with this. I tried doing dG = -rtln(k) for each and trying to find some justification that way. I'm completely lost with these question. It has something to do with the fact that dG is higher for iron but that almost sounds like more of a reason for it to be earlier than copper rather than the other way around.
Something about the larger dG value has to explain it but I'm completely lost. I even tried dG = h - tdS because dS will be larger for iron because it makes 1.5 o2 but that means it needs less heat which gets me even farther from an answer...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Are you sure you didn't get it backwards with the minus signs?
If I look at this page, for most substances the \Delta G^0 is negative for the formation of compound substances from their components. So I would expect there to be a positive difference in energy for the decomposition of such an element. In other words, if you put copper and oxygen together, they will prefer combining to CuO2 and you'll actually have to do work to take them apart, rather than the other way around.
 
Simply put, the fact that iron ore requires more energy to smelt means that you need a hotter fire. The smelting of iron ore first required the development of charcoal and the bellows.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Simply put, the fact that iron ore requires more energy to smelt means that you need a hotter fire. The smelting of iron ore first required the development of charcoal and the bellows.


How do you deduct from the dG values that iron ore requires more energy to smelt?
I tried to come to that conclusion but am unsure how...
 
I agree with CompuChip that the equations or the \Delta G values must be flipped. The oxide is a lower energy state at standard temperature and pressure. Once this is worked out, the \Delta G=\Delta H-T\Delta S approach (which is the key to identifying smelting temperatures) will work out.
 
This is an interesting theory but I'm not convinced that it is true. Bloom iron was first produced in copper smelters so the temperature of the fire isn't key. The Gibbs energy only gives you the amount of energy required which isn't the same thing as a temperature requirement.

Given the temperature of copper smelters is high enough to produce the iron, the higher energy requirement might better translate to a time requirement. Copper is produced faster in the smelt than iron perhaps.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
10K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
12K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
11K