Why would large quantities of dark matter not stick together ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dark matter and its interaction with regular matter, particularly why large quantities of dark matter do not seem to stick together or form orbits around stars. Participants explore theoretical implications, the properties of dark matter, and the nature of gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether dark matter forms orbits around stars and why it does not mingle with regular matter, such as dust belts.
  • One viewpoint suggests that instead of positing new substances like dark matter, it may be more reasonable to modify the rules of gravity locally due to its strange properties.
  • Another participant asserts that dark matter is known to exist, as evidenced by the development of new instruments that reveal previously unseen phenomena, which were classified as dark matter until observed.
  • There is a claim that gravity, as understood since the development of General Relativity, does not function as a form of radiated energy but rather as a geometric condition of spacetime.
  • It is noted that dark matter does not compact like ordinary matter, with particles passing through each other and interacting weakly with both themselves and regular matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of dark matter and its interaction with gravity, with no consensus reached on whether to accept dark matter as a substance or to modify existing gravitational theories.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the mediation of gravity and the properties of dark matter, as well as the dependence on definitions of dark matter and gravity.

mikenovice
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Does dark matter form orbits around stars ? Why would dark matter and "regular" matter, say, a dust belt not mingle and stick together?

Just with black holes, with d.matter we are positing new objects with complex properties instead of simply admitting imperfection in gravity. Since it is difficult to show how gravity is mediated (as opposed to showing its effects, which are clear)...to me, Occham's razor is best applied by modifying gravity rules locally instead of inventing new substances.
Of course, it is inelegant to make exceptions to gravity, which works well. On the other hand, gravity is so strange as to be suspicious: something leaves a mass at lightspeed, collides with other objects: the effect of this collision is to suck the object against the direction of the impact, and it does not weaken from use, and penetrates any type of element ?

While gravity generally applies, it is so strange that one should be willing to think about exceptions.
 
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The problem is that Dark Matter is known to exist. Every time we develope some new isntrument with greater sensitivity, we see new things that we could not see before. until that moment, those things were Dark Matter.
...gravity is so strange as to be suspicious: something leaves a mass at lightspeed, collides with other objects: the effect of this collision is to suck the object against the direction of the impact, and it does not weaken from use, and penetrates any type of element...
Since the development of GR, this is not the way gravity has been understood to function. It is not a form of radiated energy, but a geometric condition of spacetime.
 
mikenovice said:
Does dark matter form orbits around stars ? Why would dark matter and "regular" matter, say, a dust belt not mingle and stick together?

Just with black holes, with d.matter we are positing new objects with complex properties instead of simply admitting imperfection in gravity. Since it is difficult to show how gravity is mediated (as opposed to showing its effects, which are clear)...to me, Occham's razor is best applied by modifying gravity rules locally instead of inventing new substances.
Of course, it is inelegant to make exceptions to gravity, which works well. On the other hand, gravity is so strange as to be suspicious: something leaves a mass at lightspeed, collides with other objects: the effect of this collision is to suck the object against the direction of the impact, and it does not weaken from use, and penetrates any type of element ?

While gravity generally applies, it is so strange that one should be willing to think about exceptions.

LURCH said:
The problem is that Dark Matter is known to exist. Every time we develope some new isntrument with greater sensitivity, we see new things that we could not see before. until that moment, those things were Dark Matter.

Since the development of GR, this is not the way gravity has been understood to function. It is not a form of radiated energy, but a geometric condition of spacetime.

dark matter is not dark because scientists have seen dark matter and will see dark matter.
 
Dark matter, as conventionally defined, does not compact like ordinary matter. The particles simply pass through each other. They interact as weakly with one another as they do with ordinary matter.
 

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