Will a uniform magnetic field be considered as measurment?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a uniform magnetic field on the measurement of spin states in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the behavior of spin-1/2 particles. Participants explore the concepts of state evolution, measurement processes, and the distinction between mathematical operators and physical measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that any pure state of a spin-1/2 particle can be expressed as a superposition of spin-up and spin-down states, with the measurement outcomes being random in the absence of a magnetic field.
  • Others argue that the presence of a magnetic field leads to a time evolution of the state, described by a unitary operator, which maintains the state as a superposition rather than collapsing it into a definite value.
  • A later reply questions why the state remains general after the application of an operator, suggesting that the act of measurement is distinct from merely applying an operator.
  • Some participants clarify that the collapse of the state occurs only upon measurement, not simply through the action of an operator on the state.
  • There is a discussion about the difference between Hermitian operators, which represent measurements, and unitary operators, which describe time evolution.
  • One participant corrects another's claim about the probabilities of measurement outcomes, emphasizing that the probabilities depend on the coefficients of the superposition.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of quantum mechanics, particularly regarding collapse interpretations and the conditions under which they apply.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of measurement and the implications of applying operators to quantum states. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the collapse of states or the role of the magnetic field in measurement processes.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics, the ambiguity in the definitions of measurement, and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in the discussion.

  • #31
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  • #32
So what's the problem then? That's standard QT, as I've written above (I considered the general case that usually applies, i.e., degenerate eigenstates of a single observable operator).
 
  • #33
vanhees71 said:
So what's the problem then? That's standard QT, as I've written above (I considered the general case that usually applies, i.e., degenerate eigenstates of a single observable operator).
No great problem, just I am not familiar with this expression of probability. The probability is, in general, written in term of a value over the sum of all values representing the system. So the sum should be in the denominator. And the value in our case is the square of the projection of the general state on the eigen state (the square of the dot product).
 
  • #34
I still don't understand your problem.

Let's take the simplest case of a nondegenerate discrete spectrum. Then the operator ##\hat{A}## representing the observable ##A## has a complete set of orthonormal vectors ##|a \rangle##, i.e., each eigenspace is onedimensional. Now let the system be prepared in a pure state, represented by a unit ray in Hilbert space and let ##|\psi \rangle## be a representant of this ray. Then the probability to find the value ##a## when measuring the observable ##A## is [corrected in view of #35]
$$P(a|\psi)=|\langle a|\psi \rangle|^2.$$
These are non-negative real numbers. Since the vector ##|\psi \rangle## by definition is normalized and since the orthonormal set ##|a \rangle## is complete, you have
$$1=\langle \psi |\psi \rangle=\sum_a \langle \psi|a \rangle \langle a|\psi \rangle=\sum_a |\langle a|\psi \rangle|^2=\sum_a P(a|\psi),$$
i.e., ##P(a|\psi)## are indeed a correct set of probabilities for the outcome of measurements of observable ##A## provided the system is prepared in the said pure state.
 
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  • #35
vanhees71 said:
I still don't understand your problem.

Let's take the simplest case of a nondegenerate discrete spectrum. Then the operator ##\hat{A}## representing the observable ##A## has a complete set of orthonormal vectors ##|a \rangle##, i.e., each eigenspace is onedimensional. Now let the system be prepared in a pure state, represented by a unit ray in Hilbert space and let ##|\psi \rangle## be a representant of this ray. Then the probability to find the value ##a## when measuring the observable ##A## is
$$P(a|\psi)=|\langle a|\psi \rangle|.$$
These are non-negative real numbers. Since the vector ##|\psi \rangle## by definition is normalized and since the orthonormal set ##|a \rangle## is complete, you have
$$1=\langle \psi |\psi \rangle=\sum_a \langle \psi|a \rangle \langle a|\psi \rangle=\sum_a |\langle a|\psi \rangle|^2=\sum_a P(a|\psi),$$
i.e., ##P(a|\psi)## are indeed a correct set of probabilities for the outcome of measurements of observable ##A## provided the system is prepared in the said pure state.
Although this is excursion from the main point of the thread, I still think the first probability must be ##P(a|\psi)=|\langle a|\psi \rangle|^2## not ##|\langle a|\psi \rangle|## . Example, spin-1/2 has the state ##|\psi \rangle=\frac{1}{\sqrt2} |up \rangle+\frac{1}{\sqrt2} |down\rangle## So the probability that the system in anyone of those base states is 1/2
 
  • #36
Sure, that was a typo. Sorry! I've corrected it.
 

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