Work energy principle and power

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the work-energy principle and the calculation of average resistance force experienced by a sky diver after opening a parachute. Participants explore the conservation of energy in the context of gravitational potential energy (GPE) and kinetic energy (KE) during a fall from a height of 3000m, with specific focus on the dynamics before and after the parachute opens.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a scenario involving a sky diver of mass 80 kg falling from rest and asks for help in calculating the average resistance force after the parachute opens.
  • Several participants discuss the work done by the average resistance force and the application of conservation of energy principles, suggesting that the total energy before and after the parachute opens should be equal.
  • Multiple participants attempt to calculate GPE and KE at different points in the fall, with varying methods and assumptions about the speed just before the parachute opens.
  • One participant proposes a systematic approach using a table to organize GPE, KE, and dissipated energy at different heights, while others express confusion about the calculations and seek clarification.
  • Another participant emphasizes that calculating the speed before the parachute opens may not be necessary for finding the resistance force, suggesting a direct application of energy conservation instead.
  • Discrepancies arise regarding the calculated values for resistance force, with some participants arriving at different numerical results based on their methods and assumptions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of conservation of energy principles but disagree on the necessity of calculating the speed before the parachute opens and the resulting values for the average resistance force. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the assumptions made in their calculations, such as the effects of air resistance and the initial conditions of the fall. There are also unresolved mathematical steps in the calculations presented.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals interested in understanding the work-energy principle, energy conservation in physics, and the dynamics of falling objects with resistance forces.

Shah 72
MHB
Messages
274
Reaction score
0
A sky diver of mass 80 kg falls 1000m from rest and then opens his parachute for the remaining 2000m of his fall. Air resistance is negligible until the parachute opens. The sky diver is traveling at 5 m/ s just before he hits the ground. Find the average resistance force when the sky diver is falling with the parachute open.
I don't understand this. Pls help
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
The work done by an average resistance force $F_{friction}$ is $W_{friction}=F_{friction}\cdot \Delta h$.

Conservation of energy means that $GPE+KE$ just before the parachute opens must be equal to $GPE+KE+W_{friction}$ at the ground.

Can we find those $GPE$'s and $KE$'s?
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The work done by an average resistance force $F_{friction}$ is $W_{friction}=F_{friction}\cdot \Delta h$.

Conservation of energy means that $GPE+KE$ just before the parachute opens must be equal to $GPE+KE+W_{friction}$ at the ground.

Can we find those $GPE$'s and $KE$'s?
Let me try to work it out.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The work done by an average resistance force $F_{friction}$ is $W_{friction}=F_{friction}\cdot \Delta h$.

Conservation of energy means that $GPE+KE$ just before the parachute opens must be equal to $GPE+KE+W_{friction}$ at the ground.

Can we find those $GPE$'s and $KE$'s?
Before parachute opens
m= 80 kg, h = 1000m, u= 0m/s, v = vm/s
Increase in KE= 1/2mv^2= 40 v^2 J
Loss of GPE= mgh= 80×10× 1000= 800000J
After parachute opens
U= vm/s, v= 5m/s
Increase in KE= 1000- 40v^2
Loss of GPE= 80×10×2000= 1600000J
Work done against resistance = F× 2000 J
I don't know how to calculate after this
 
Let's do this a bit more systematically and put it in a table:
\begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|}
\hline
&h&GPE&KE&\text{Dissipated energy}&\text{Total energy} \\
\hline
\text{Initial} & 3000 & mg\cdot 3000 & 0 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Parachute opens} & 2000 & mg\cdot 2000 & mg\cdot 1000 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Ground} & 0 & 0 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 & F_{friction}\cdot 2000 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \\
\hline
\end{array}
The $\text{Total energy}$ must be the same at all times.
Can we find $F_{friction}$ from that?
 
Last edited:
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Let's do this a bit more systematically and put it in a table:
\begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|}
\hline
&h&GPE&KE&\text{Dissipated energy}&\text{Total energy} \\
\hline
\text{Initial} & 3000 & mg\cdot 3000 & 0 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Parachute opens} & 2000 & mg\cdot 2000 & mg\cdot 1000 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Ground} & 0 & 0 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 & F_{friction}\cdot 2000 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \\
\hline
\end{array}
The $\text{Total energy}$ must be the same at all times.
Can we find $F_{friction}$ from that?
I apologize but iam not able to get the ans. Pls help
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Let's do this a bit more systematically and put it in a table:
\begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|}
\hline
&h&GPE&KE&\text{Dissipated energy}&\text{Total energy} \\
\hline
\text{Initial} & 3000 & mg\cdot 3000 & 0 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Parachute opens} & 2000 & mg\cdot 2000 & mg\cdot 1000 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Ground} & 0 & 0 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 & F_{friction}\cdot 2000 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \\
\hline
\end{array}
The $\text{Total energy}$ must be the same at all times.
Can we find $F_{friction}$ from that?
I calculated using v^2= u^2+2as
To calculate the speed just before the parachute opens.
So I get v= 141.42 m/ s
After the parachute opens
U= 141.42m /s, v= 5m/ s
Increase in KE= -798984.7J
Loss in GPE= mg(h2-h1)= mg (0-2000)= -1600000J
Work done against resistance = -2000F
Increase in mechanical energy = work done
I get 1199 N or 1200N
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Let's do this a bit more systematically and put it in a table:
\begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|}
\hline
&h&GPE&KE&\text{Dissipated energy}&\text{Total energy} \\
\hline
\text{Initial} & 3000 & mg\cdot 3000 & 0 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Parachute opens} & 2000 & mg\cdot 2000 & mg\cdot 1000 & 0 & mg\cdot 3000 \\
\text{Ground} & 0 & 0 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 & F_{friction}\cdot 2000 & \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \\
\hline
\end{array}
The $\text{Total energy}$ must be the same at all times.
Can we find $F_{friction}$ from that?
Pls help me to calculate with the method you have used. Pls
 
Please do not bump. That is, please do not post a useless post just to attract attention.

We don't need to calculate the speed.
The energy at the beginning is $mg\cdot 3000$.
We have the same total energy when the parachute opens.
And at the ground the total energy is $\frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000$.

At each point in time the total energy must be the same. So:
$$mg\cdot 3000 = \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \implies F_{friction}=\frac{mg\cdot 3000 - \frac 12m\cdot 5^2}{2000}$$
We can now fill in $m=80\text{ kg}$ and $g=10\text{ m/s}^2$.
 
  • #10
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Please do not bump. That is, please do not post a useless post just to attract attention.

We don't need to calculate the speed.
The energy at the beginning is $mg\cdot 3000$.
We have the same total energy when the parachute opens.
And at the ground the total energy is $\frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000$.

At each point in time the total energy must be the same. So:
$$mg\cdot 3000 = \frac 12m\cdot 5^2 + F_{friction}\cdot 2000 \implies F_{friction}=\frac{mg\cdot 3000 - \frac 12m\cdot 5^2}{2000}$$
We can now fill in $m=80\text{ kg}$ and $g=10\text{ m/s}^2$.
Thank you so much!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
948
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
21K