Would an idea be a particle or a wave or both?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of ideas in the context of quantum physics, specifically questioning whether an idea can be classified as a particle, a wave, or both. It explores the implications of measurement in quantum mechanics and the role of thought as a potential observer in this process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if an atom's behavior as a particle or wave depends on measurement, then thoughts might influence this measurement.
  • Another participant proposes that thoughts are more likely to be associated with wave phenomena, specifically brain waves.
  • A participant questions whether thought, as a measurement tool, could control the outcome of an atom's state, pondering the nature of the observer in quantum mechanics.
  • One reply challenges the assumption that thought can be considered a measurement tool, emphasizing that observation or detection is what triggers the collapse of the wave function.
  • A later post critiques the oversimplification of the concept that atoms decide their state upon measurement, arguing that "particle" and "wave" are human-imposed labels rather than intrinsic properties of atoms.
  • Another participant reiterates the complexity of the issue, suggesting that the discussion of consciousness and wave/particle duality is nuanced and requires deeper exploration of existing threads.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of thought in measurement and the interpretation of wave/particle duality. There is no consensus on whether ideas can be classified as particles, waves, or both, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of common interpretations of quantum mechanics, noting that the terms "particle" and "wave" may not accurately describe the nature of atomic states and that the role of conscious thought in measurement is a complex and debated topic.

Sksisme
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If an Atom doesn't decide if it will be a particle or a wave until it is measured, and we assume thought is the tool for measurement...In quantum physics would an idea be a particle or a wave or both?
 
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More likely a wave. Hopefully a brain wave.
 
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If thought could be used as the tool for measurement, and the measurement is the trigger for an atom to make decisions could we control the decision outcome? But as I understand it the "observer" is the influence that makes the atom decide to be a particle. If that is true would thought be considered an observer and therefore can only lead to a particle outcome or can thought be considered non-visual. If it is non-visual does that mean it would have no impact on the outcome?
 
Sksisme said:
... and we assume thought is the tool for measurement.
That would be a bad assumption. It is observation/detection that triggers the collapse.
 
Sksisme said:
If an Atom doesn't decide if it will be a particle or a wave until it is measured

This is a common pop science statement, but it's a serious oversimplification. "Measurement" is simply an interaction that can change the state of the atom. Some states have useful particle interpretations, some don't; some states have useful wave interpretations, some don't. And in any case, "particle" and "wave" are not intrinsic physical attributes of an atom or its states; they are labels that we humans put on certain states to help us try to understand what's going on. If we choose to change the label we use because the atom underwent some interaction and changed its state, that's our choice as humans trying to analyze the experiment; the atom didn't "decide" anything, we did.
 
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Sksisme said:
If an Atom doesn't decide if it will be a particle or a wave until it is measured, and we assume thought is the tool for measurement...

As a starting assumption, this is a near-hopeless oversimplification of a fairly subtle issue. There are many threads here discussing the role of conscious thought and the notions of wave/particle duality and particles "choosing" to be one or the other, and I suggest that you work your way through some of them so that you can start on more solid ground.

This thread is closed.
 
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