Writing correct sign of quantities

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the correct formulation of relative velocities in optics, specifically regarding the motion of images in relation to mirrors and lenses. The equation for the velocity of the image with respect to the ground, expressed as dy/dt = vi - 3vo, is clarified through the context of relative motion. Participants emphasize that the direction of positive growth for distances y and x must be clearly defined, with y increasing to the right and x to the left. The conclusion drawn is that for the image to move positively, the velocity of the image vi must exceed 3vo.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of relative motion principles in physics
  • Familiarity with basic optics concepts, including mirrors and lenses
  • Knowledge of vector notation and operations
  • Ability to interpret and manipulate equations involving derivatives
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the concept of relative velocity in physics, focusing on v_{IG} = v_{IM} + v_{MG}
  • Learn about the behavior of images in mirrors and lenses, particularly in terms of sign conventions
  • Explore the implications of positive and negative signs in motion equations
  • Review the derivation of dy/dt in various optical scenarios
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, particularly those studying optics, as well as educators seeking to clarify concepts of relative motion and velocity in their teaching materials.

Rhdjfgjgj
Messages
31
Reaction score
3
Homework Statement
My doubt is regarding the signs for the given picture .
Here I didn't understand how my sir wrote dy/dt=vi-3vo.
I felt I should have been
3vo -vi because this vector is opposite to the velocity vector of the object . This is a question from geometrical optics.
Relevant Equations
No equations needed
IMG_20231112_203241.jpg
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi,

All very interesting, but what's this all about ? What is the complete problem statement ?
Which way is positive ?

##\ ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark and e_jane
Rhdjfgjgj said:
Here I didn't understand how my sir wrote dy/dt=vi-3vo.
I felt I should have been
3vo -vi because this vector is opposite to the velocity vector of the object .
Respect to the ground, which value of velocity is greater, the velocity of the lens or mirror (3Vo) or the velocity of the image projected by it (Vi)?

Which subtraction gives a positive dy/dt?

Note that distance y grows positive (to the right) from the mirror or lens, while distance x grows positive (to the left) from the mirror or lens.
 
My sir taught us to find velocity of image when mirror is at rest. So we used relative motion ka concept. Wrt to mirror, object is moving with 4vo away from the mirror along normal. He assumed that the image is formed at i and assumed that it's moving with vi as shown .

He assumed object distance as x and image distance as y.
Now just see the expression of dx/dt and dy/dt . The expression is written wrt mirror
Since vi is opposite of vo dy/dt has to be -(vi-3vo) . Like almost all these question types he used same thing only .
vi is velocity of image wrt ground.
Lnewqban said:
Respect to the ground, which value of velocity is greater, the velocity of the lens or mirror (3Vo) or the velocity of the image projected by it (Vi)?

Which subtraction gives a positive dy/dt?

Note that distance y grows positive (to the right) from the mirror or lens, while distance x grows positive (to the left) from the mirror or lens.
Since y is increasing vi must be grater than 3vo. And since he wrote dx/dt as 4vo I assume he must have taken the left direction as + for velocity.
BvU said:
Hi,

All very interesting, but what's this all about ? What is the complete problem statement ?
Which way is positive ?

##\ ##
 
Friends im waiting for your reply
 
In terms of relative velocities, you have ##\vec v_{IG} = \vec v_{IM} + \vec v_{MG}## where
\begin{align*}
\vec v_{IG} &= \text{velocity of the image with respect to the ground} = v_I \,\hat i \\
\vec v_{IM} &= \text{velocity of the image with respect to the mirror} = \frac{dy}{dt} \hat i\\
\vec v_{MG} &= \text{velocity of the mirror with respect to the ground} = 3v_o\,\hat i
\end{align*} If you solve that equation for ##dy/dt##, you get what your instructor wrote down.

More intuitively, if the image moves to the right (holding the mirror position fixed), ##y## increases, so ##dy/dt## and ##v_I## have the same sign. If the mirror moves to the right (with the image position fixed), it will cause ##y## to decrease, so ##3v_o## comes in with a negative sign.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: e_jane and Lnewqban
vela said:
In terms of relative velocities, you have ##\vec v_{IG} = \vec v_{IM} + \vec v_{MG}## where
\begin{align*}
\vec v_{IG} &= \text{velocity of the image with respect to the ground} = v_I \,\hat i \\
\vec v_{IM} &= \text{velocity of the image with respect to the mirror} = \frac{dy}{dt} \hat i\\
\vec v_{MG} &= \text{velocity of the mirror with respect to the ground} = 3v_o\,\hat i
\end{align*} If you solve that equation for ##dy/dt##, you get what your instructor wrote down.

More intuitively, if the image moves to the right (holding the mirror position fixed), ##y## increases, so ##dy/dt## and ##v_I## have the same sign. If the mirror moves to the right (with the image position fixed), it will cause ##y## to decrease, so ##3v_o## comes in with a negative sign.
Well, in that case vo(object velocity) should have been -4voi
 
It seems ##x## is a distance, not a position, and ##v_o## is a speed, not a velocity.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SammyS

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K