News Your opinion about Mr.Zapatero

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GENIERE

Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help. If there is a difference, it would the element of globalization (no nation states, the communist ideal) and various degrees of national independence as might be expressed by the German Social Democratic Party. The EU is an example of globalization, as the member states must cede sovereignty to qualify. Human rights are not guaranteed under the EU constitution, allowing that determination to be made by the individual member nations. Sounds good until one realizes the Word Court can prosecute individuals subject only to its laws. What makes the UN so very dangerous is it’s obvious commitment to the globalization process (communism) and the necessary need to defeat capitalism at all costs. Capitalism is the ONLY mechanism thus far known to create wealth, however inequitably that wealth is distributed. Socialism, aka communism, has served only to impede the wealth generation of the nations so governed, thereby lowering the living standards of the citizen. The social programs so cherished by the populace can no longer be supported by the poor economic performance of their nations. It’s amusing that the EU is discussing the imposition of an import tariff based on the exporting country's tax rate. The lower the tax rate, the higher the tariff. Obviously the EU is aware that socialism/communism cannot compete with the wealth generation of free nations.

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

As far as the Spanish unemployment figures one should refer to Clausius2’s posts. Clausius2, an informed Spanish citizen does not support Mercator’s imagined facts.

= =
 
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Mercator

Geniere, first you write this: (about socialst and communist)
GENIERE said:
What's the difference? = =
GENIERE said:
Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help.

= =
So you don't know the difference and then you try to explain the difference to me? Anyway, your "definition" shiows that your first question reflects your knowledge about it.

As for unemployment, look at the statistics and don't try to avoid your humiliation by hiding behind another person (who does not care to have a look at the statistics either). Be a man and admit: in begin of this year, under Aznar, unemployment was > 11 %. So, because it was Aznar, it is acceptable to you to have 11 % unemployed?

Clausius, check the figures in my link and then confirm.

Please don't discuss further without knowledge or in ignorance of the facts.
 
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JohnDubYa said:
I'm not going to defend our public schools. I have my gripes as well. I just don't like it when Americans go out of their way to ridicule their own country by projecting their own inadequencies on everyone else. Show some pride, for God's sake!

If a Frenchman came in here and said "You will have to excuse my spinelessness, for I am French," I think the French would have every right to complain. Sure, I can understand why Americans would say something like that (we are rivals to a certain extent), but any Frenchman who says that isn't much a Frenchman. And I feel the same way about Americans who, in essence, say "Pardon my stupidity, but I'm an American." With citizens like that, who needs enemies?

This is how low the politics have sunk in this country. In an effort to prop up the views of our rivals, our own citizens are disparaging themselves in an effort to brand the same identity on our government.

Now, maybe I misunderstood the original poster's angle. If so, I'm sorry. I saw what he wrote and, to me, it looked like a politically motivated cheap shot. But I could be wrong. And if he says I am, I will apologize.
It was meant more to be an insult to our media, not really our govt. You must admit that MSNBC, CNN and Fox News don't do a very good job of covering much international news that doesn't have to do with war and the French being fondue eating surrender monkeys.

I'm not really nationalistic, so I'm not going to pretend like the USA's a country full of people who know tons and tons about Spain's government just to project a better image of America to random people on the internet.
 
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I'm not really nationalistic, so I'm not going to pretend like the USA's a country full of people who know tons and tons about Spain's government just to project a better image of America to random people on the internet.
No one asked you to.
 
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JohnDubYa said:
No one asked you to.
No, you just got mad at me for saying that as an American I don't know much about anything but the USA and Iraq.
 

GENIERE

Mercator - A reporter on assignment from CBS?

The question; "What's the difference?" does not infer I am unaware of the basic tenets of Socialism, or Communism. It was a question directed at the reader.

It is a fact that the percentage of unemployment was halved under Azner.

It is a fact that unemployment under Zapatero's regime is 11+%. I attribute the increase in unemployment to corporate despair, the anticipation of a socialist government being in power. Mercator is free to attribute causality to anything he wishes or imagines. Major, German owned corporations are threatening to out source their manufacturing to other, less restrictive EU countries. Spain, once a contender is no longer of interest to them.

Mercator should not presume to act as a mentor. This forum has only recently benefited from having a seemingly unbiased mentor, let’s keep it that way.

I apologize to Clausius2 for intruding on his thread. This is my last entry.
 

Mercator

GENIERE said:
It is a fact that unemployment under Zapatero's regime is 11+%. .
1.You have clearly shown with your attempt to an explanation ,that nobody asked for, that you don't understand the difference between Socialism and Communism.

2.The unemployment under Aznar was 11+ %. In the few months of Zapatero the unemployment went down slightly, as shown in the statistics that you keep ignoring. Sorry, you lost your argument, period, end of discussion.
 
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Mercator

BTW, and this is a general remark, not intended for G alone.

If I had to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism to an American, for simplicity's sake I would compare a socialist to what Americans call a "liberal". Communists, though superficially they start from a different theory, are in practice like the Neocons. They too want world domination with a small elite on the top and are ruthless in pursuing their goals. In this respect the Chinese party is a model for the Neocons who wished they had the same unlimited power over "the people" and like in China can decide what's good for them and what not. People like Zapatero stand for exactly the opposite.
 

Mercator

Here are the figures.

Who was in charge in July 2003? Aznar. When did Zapatero take office?

July 2003 Jan 2004 Feb 2004 Mar 2004 Apr 2004 May 2004 June 2004 July 2004
Euro-zone 8.9 8.9 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0

ES 11.3 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.0 11.0 11.0

Nothing more to add I suppose.
 
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0
I don't have nothing against Zapatero; in fact I prefer him to Aznar. But he should learn some english. He was in a quite ridicule position in a public act a pair of days ago when he showed his lack of ability in this language
 

Mercator

meteor said:
I don't have nothing against Zapatero; in fact I prefer him to Aznar. But he should learn some english. He was in a quite ridicule position in a public act a pair of days ago when he showed his lack of ability in this language
Maybe send him to a crash course together with Bush?
 
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GENIERE said:
Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help. If there is a difference, it would the element of globalization (no nation states, the communist ideal) and various degrees of national independence as might be expressed by the German Social Democratic Party. The EU is an example of globalization, as the member states must cede sovereignty to qualify. Human rights are not guaranteed under the EU constitution, allowing that determination to be made by the individual member nations. Sounds good until one realizes the Word Court can prosecute individuals subject only to its laws. What makes the UN so very dangerous is it’s obvious commitment to the globalization process (communism) and the necessary need to defeat capitalism at all costs. Capitalism is the ONLY mechanism thus far known to create wealth, however inequitably that wealth is distributed. Socialism, aka communism, has served only to impede the wealth generation of the nations so governed, thereby lowering the living standards of the citizen. The social programs so cherished by the populace can no longer be supported by the poor economic performance of their nations. It’s amusing that the EU is discussing the imposition of an import tariff based on the exporting country's tax rate. The lower the tax rate, the higher the tariff. Obviously the EU is aware that socialism/communism cannot compete with the wealth generation of free nations.

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.
and
Mercator said:
If I had to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism to an American, for simplicity's sake I would compare a socialist to what Americans call a "liberal". Communists, though superficially they start from a different theory, are in practice like the Neocons. They too want world domination with a small elite on the top and are ruthless in pursuing their goals. In this respect the Chinese party is a model for the Neocons who wished they had the same unlimited power over "the people" and like in China can decide what's good for them and what not. People like Zapatero stand for exactly the opposite.
This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.
 
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Mercator

Smurf said:
and

This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.
Sorry Smurf, never heard about the socialist and communist "internationale" ? Socialist ideas have indeed been introduced in many ways and forms in Europe, to the chagrin of people like G, not without success in countries like Sweden, the Netherlands and so on. But you are wrong about communism. It IS the goal of communism to dominate the whole world. Communism IS by definition totalitarian (dictatorship of proletariat) the communist internationale(s) all state that real communism can only be achieved in a completely communist world and cannot exist in a vacuum (it is the excuse amongst communists for the failure of communist regimes: the work is not finished yet) What I wanted to show is that extremists left and right are always closer than they want to admit, as history has shown us with Nazism (nazional Zocialism) and Fascism (by Socialist Mussolini).

But we were talking Zapatero here. Is a change from 11.1 to 11.0 an increase according to you? Am I the only one here who can read the figures in a statistic?
 
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Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and thats why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isnt an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?
 

Mercator

Smurf said:
Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and thats why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isnt an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?
According to G-logic it will increase significantly as the figures go down.
The intellectulay dishonest proposition here was that Zapatero somehow increased the figures after he took over from Aznar. It may be that in the future unemployment may grow again in Spain, who knows, but when discussing, one better stays in tune with the facts.
 

Clausius2

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Mercator said:
Here are the figures.

Who was in charge in July 2003? Aznar. When did Zapatero take office?

July 2003 Jan 2004 Feb 2004 Mar 2004 Apr 2004 May 2004 June 2004 July 2004
Euro-zone 8.9 8.9 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0

ES 11.3 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.0 11.0 11.0

Nothing more to add I suppose.
It's all right. But this not mean it's the highest of Europe. I will search for the ones of Germany and France. You are comparing with the mean of euro zone.

At the end of Aznar's period, the unemployment increased a bit, but he made possible a reduction of 1.000.000 of employees. No criticizing about such small increasing is worth of mention. It's like you have defeated Goliath and somebody critices you for not killing a fly.

About Zapatero's. knowledge about english language, it's so sad to see him talking only about weather. But some people defines spaniard as the guy that is always trying to learn english all his life. :rofl:

By contrast what you said about the slight decreasing of unemployment during the first times of Zapatero's period is true. But there are two points:
-The figures are not significative of any success
-The summer was inmmediately next. So that, the employment increases every year in that time, due to holidays and recreation businesses.

Also, the minister of enconomics has announced an increasing of the total economic deficit of the nation (1.8%) and the new-built houses and flats have increased their price a 17% last year. That is the highest increasing of all Europe.
 

Clausius2

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Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm [Broken]

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table. :cry:
 
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selfAdjoint

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Clausius2 said:
Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm [Broken]

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table. :cry:
There's nothing to be ashamed of. Many of the core EU countries use make-work projects and lots of holidays and partial time work to disguise the reality. It's really hard for a government to really fix unemployment, and the EU compact greatly restricts the one tool they have, deficit spending.
 
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Mercator

Clausius2 said:
Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm [Broken]

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table. :cry:
Dont worry, Belgium is not much better. Clausius, I did not want to argue with you. My post was only aimed at the poster who made it look like Zapatero suddenly caused an increase in unemployment, which is not true. Maybe he will later, and I am sure to applaud Aznar for what he has done, but that does not give anyone the right to ignore the facts. But what else can you expect from soemeone who'se convinced socialists and communists are the same? Let's see what Zapatero does after a year or so. One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society. For anyone that knows a little bit about Spanish society that is good news.
 
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Clausius2

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Mercator said:
One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Finaly a man who wants to talk and involve the muslims themselves in solving terrorism.
You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.
 

Mercator

Clausius2 said:
You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.
So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better dont discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.
 

Clausius2

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Mercator said:
So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better dont discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.
I think:
1) you don't have any idea of what means Spanish macho.
2) I'm not a Spanish macho if you are saying that in an offensive way.
3) I agree with you about the women and their problems in our society.
4) I do not agree with Zapatero and his solution of putting the worst women in his cabinet.
5) You are not telling all the truth, because a lot of terrorist groups are supported and financed by that muslim goverments you mentioned.
6) I do not need a guy with makes a good impression to people like you who only watch their manners and politeness. I watch their technical capabilty to govern a country, and Aznar was like a scienctist in his laboratory while Zapatero is only visiting it, smiling a lot but doing nothing that a president has to do. The external appearance is not all in what you have to look into..
 

Mercator

GENIERE: still care to come back on this, or do you still prefer to keep silent if it is clearly proven you were abusing the figures? "Business/Economy

Unemployment rate hits three year low
Tuesday, October 26, 2004

By: ThinkSpain


Unemployment fell by 61,300 in the third quarter of this year and now stands at 10.54%, the lowest rate since the fourth quarter of 2001. The latest figures from the national statistics office show a fall from 10.93% in the second quarter and 11.38% in the first. During the third quarter, a total of 190,400 jobs were created, while the working population grew by 129,100 people. Over the last 12 months, unemployment has fallen by 83,300, and the total number of new jobs created has been 422,600. There are now a total of 2,031,000 unemployed people in Spain."
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7218
 
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Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

Capitalism has a goal to keep their worker ants, in a culvert somewhere near Baker California, where they will be hosed off before work, and expected to find their way home again following trails of breadcrumbs...

Why doesn't anyone get Wasteofo's great humor, and cynicism, why so obtuse? I know, now that it is known that he is a student, the older males in the heirarchy can pretend to not notice him, and make obtuse comments, while munching termites off their little termite twigs.
 

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