Zero-point energy cancelled by its gravitational energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between zero-point energy (ZPE) and gravitational energy, particularly in the context of cosmology and dark energy. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and potential models involving quantum field theory and gravitational waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical derivation suggesting that the positive energy of the zero-point field diverges as the scale decreases, leading to a cancellation with negative gravitational potential energy.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the gravitational implications of zero-point energy, questioning its role in generating a gravitational field.
  • A participant interprets the discussion as a challenge to the idea of ZPE being a source of dark energy.
  • Another participant agrees with the cancellation hypothesis and speculates that dark energy may arise from advanced gravitational waves affecting matter in the universe, linking it to Mach's principle.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need for a more technical framework, referencing quantum field theory in curved spacetime and a paper by Maggiore that discusses the contributions of zero-point fluctuations to dark energy.
  • This participant also notes the necessity for a mechanism that generates gravitational waves while remaining a subdominant contribution to cosmological perturbations, highlighting constraints from observational data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of zero-point energy and its relationship with gravitational energy. While some support the idea of cancellation, others question the gravitational effects of zero-point energy and the overall role of ZPE in dark energy, indicating that multiple competing views remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex theoretical frameworks and assumptions that are not fully resolved, including the dependence on specific models of gravitational waves and the implications of quantum field theory in curved spacetime.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying cosmology, quantum field theory, and the nature of dark energy, as well as individuals exploring the intersections of gravity and quantum mechanics.

johne1618
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Consider the uncertainty principle:

dp * dx = hbar

For photons we have the relation:

E = p c

Substituting into the above uncertainty principle:

dE = hbar c / dx (1)

As we look at a smaller and smaller piece of the zero-point field the (positive) energy diverges.

But that energy has a mass equivalent which therefore has a negative gravitational potential self-energy, dP.

dP = - G dM^2 / dx (2)

As dx -> 0 then dP -> -infinity as fast as dE -> infinity so they cancel each other out.

If we have:

dE = -dP = dM c^2

and substitute this relation into (1) and (2) we get a relation for the length scale dx:

dx = sqrt(G hbar / c^3)

This is the Planck length.

I would guess that space-time quantisation is equivalent to the zero-point energy at each point being canceled out by its negative gravitational potential energy.
 
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Hrmm...I wish I knew more on this. Maybe someone else knows something about this? I didn't think that zero point energy had any gravitational field.
 
I assume you are making a case against ZPE as the source of dark energy.
 
Chronos said:
I assume you are making a case against ZPE as the source of dark energy.

Yes - I think the zero-point energy at each point in space is exactly canceled by its negative gravitational energy.

I speculate that the dark energy/negative pressure is caused by advanced gravitational waves which impinge on the accelerating matter in the Universe and lead to that matter having an inertia - a possible mechanism for Mach's principle.
 
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This is actually a more technical question than the initial responses and question seem to assume. The appropriate framework for this question is quantum field theory in curved spacetime (or quantum theories for gravitation). There are others on the forum who are much more proficient and technically savvy than I am on this issue but an interesting paper was recently written by Maggiore which deals with this issue.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1782

Basic conclusion is that the ZPF contribute a subdominant 'dark' contribution leaving the nature of the dominant contribution to dark energy a problem for current research trends in theoretical physics. This is a fairly technical paper and I probably need to really sit down and read it properly, consider his derivations etc (as opposed to just reading through it somewhat briefly) - I wonder if anyone else has seen this paper or has any strong feelings on it one way or the other? I'd be glad to hear any thoughts on the paper from people.

As for Johne1618's post above, your line of approach is along that of backreaction in cosmological models. Be aware that your model requires a mechanism that can generate such horizon scale gravitational waves whilst remaining a subdominant contribution to perturbations (e.g. tensor modes are suppressed relative to scalar perturbations) - there are constraints from the CMB, CMB Polarisation, formation of large scale structure, growth history of the Universe etc. You would need to provide more explicit technical details before I can really comment on the viability of such a proposal. Similar backreaction effects have been considered in research by the likes of Buchert, Coley, etc. See, for example,

http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.3084

Hope this is of some interest and help.
 
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