Need Help with Nodal Surfaces in Chemistry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of nodal surfaces in atomic orbitals, specifically focusing on the 2s and 3px orbitals. Participants seek clarification on the number of nodal surfaces associated with these orbitals, exploring both theoretical and conceptual aspects of the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks about the definition and number of nodal surfaces for a 2s and a 3px orbital.
  • Another participant provides links to external resources that may help in understanding the topic.
  • A participant claims that a 2s orbital has 1 nodal surface and a 3px orbital has 2 nodal surfaces, seeking confirmation of these answers.
  • One participant confirms the previous claim about the number of nodal surfaces for both orbitals.
  • A later reply discusses the origin of nodal points from the radial part of the wavefunction and elaborates on the relationship between the wavefunctions of different orbitals, including observations about orthogonality and the calculation of nodal surfaces.
  • The same participant explains that the formula for determining the number of nodal surfaces is (n-l-1) + l = n-1, where n is the principal quantum number and l is the azimuthal quantum number.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There appears to be agreement on the number of nodal surfaces for the 2s and 3px orbitals as stated by participants, but the discussion includes additional insights and observations that may not be universally accepted or confirmed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of nodal surfaces and the mathematical relationships between quantum numbers and nodal surfaces, which may not be fully explored or agreed upon by all participants.

RPN
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Hello,
New to chemistry need help with this question and I don't understand what a nodal surface is
How mnay nodal surfaces are there for
a) a 2s orbital
b) a 3px orbital
If anyone can help me that would be great.
Thank you
 
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Thanks for the quick reply!
So I went to the links and I think these are the answers
a) a 2s orbital has 1 nodal surface
b) a 3px orbital has 2 nodal surfaces
Is that right?
Thanks for the help!
 
Thank you so much. I really appreicate all the help provided here.
 
Dexter, the Orbitron site is really neat.

Just a few additional points here :

1. The nodal points come from the radial part of the wavefunction.

2. A neat little observation (at least to me) : We know that [itex]R_{1s}[/itex] decays exponentially from the origin and hence has no nodes. 2s is orthogonal to 1s. So, if 1s is positive everywhere and the integral of the product is zero (orthogonality), then 2s must have a positive and a negative region. In other words, 2s must have at least one node.

3. [itex]\psi _{n,l,m}[/itex] has n-l-1 nodes in [itex]R_{n,l}[/itex] which are not at the origin, and one node at the origin for p,d and f. For [itex]\psi _{n,l,m}[/itex], the node at the origin gives rise to l nodal surfaces (planes or cones) passing through the origin (hence the s orbitals have no nodal surfaces passing through the origin).

The upshot of point 3 is that there are (n-l-1) + l = n-1 nodal surfaces, totally.
 

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