Where to Find a 24-Hour Wall Clock for Easy Timekeeping Across Timezones

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a wall clock that displays time in a 24-hour format, specifically for tracking time in New Zealand, which is significantly ahead of Eastern Standard Time (EST). Participants explore various clock types, including analog and digital options, and express preferences regarding readability and design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a 24-hour clock that clearly indicates AM and PM without requiring interpretation, emphasizing the need for visibility from a distance.
  • Some participants suggest that digital clocks typically have a 12/24 hour option, but one participant expresses a preference against military time, which is often associated with the 24-hour format.
  • There is a proposal to create a custom clock face for a military-style analog clock to display standard AM/PM indicators.
  • Another participant notes the confusion surrounding the terms "24-hour time" and "military time," suggesting that many find it easier to read a 24-hour clock than a 12-hour clock.
  • Participants discuss the potential for misunderstanding military time, with some expressing that it can be tricky for those unfamiliar with it.
  • Several links to clock options are shared, including specific models that might meet the original poster's needs.
  • One participant raises a design question about the typical layout of 24-hour clocks, noting that it places midnight at the bottom and noon at the top, which they find counterintuitive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the readability and usability of 24-hour versus 12-hour clocks, with no consensus reached on the best solution. Some agree on the need for clear AM/PM indicators, while others question the necessity of such indicators.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various options for clocks, including analog and digital types, but do not resolve the question of which design is ultimately preferable. There is also a lack of clarity on the definitions of military time versus 24-hour time, which contributes to the ongoing debate.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals looking for timekeeping solutions across different time zones, particularly those who prefer analog clocks or have specific readability requirements.

  • #31
DaveC426913 said:
OK, if this were for me, I'd have no problem with mil time.

Thing about a wife is that one can't "do her an unsolicited favour" and then turn around and tell her she needs to be trained to use the thing.

By definition, it has to make her life easier, not harder.

Having a wife looks like a hard job :biggrin:

P.S. I use this gadget http://www.google.com/ig/directory?url=www.ljmsite.com/google/gadgets/worldclocks.xml with igoogle as my homepage. But Google desktop could work better.
 
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  • #32
I remember one time one of my ex girlfriends went away for a few months so to know what time it was where she was I would just use the world clock that is on my phone... I'm pretty sure it's on every phone, at least it's been on everyone I've owned.

Why does the clock NEED to be 24 hour and why does it also have to show if it is AM vs PM?
 
  • #33
Sorry! said:
Why does the clock NEED to be 24 hour and why does it also have to show if it is AM vs PM?
OK, there seems to be some confusion here. I'll go over it again.

The clock needs to unambiguously display what time of the 24 hour day it currently is (in a different time zone).

Here's why: A 12-hour clock on the wall here in Ontario that reads 5 o'clock does not tell me whether it's 5AM or 5PM in New Zealand.


An analog clock could do this in two ways:
1] A normal 12-hour dial that has an AM/PM display.
2] A 24-hour dial.

I guess I've decided I prefer an analog display.
 
  • #34
DaveC426913 said:
OK, there seems to be some confusion here. I'll go over it again.

The clock needs to unambiguously display what time of the 24 hour day it currently is (in a different time zone).

Here's why: A 12-hour clock on the wall here in Ontario that reads 5 o'clock does not tell me whether it's 5AM or 5PM in New Zealand.An analog clock could do this in two ways:
1] A normal 12-hour dial that has an AM/PM display.
2] A 24-hour dial.

I guess I've decided I prefer an analog display.

Wouldn't it always be opposite there? (AM here PM there ..)? or same I believe (PM here PM there)
 
  • #35
Poor Dave,

Those of us who have been married are just messin' with him (ok, maybe its just me),
Those who haven't simply don't understand :smile:
 
  • #36
rootX said:
Wouldn't it always be opposite there? (AM here PM there ..)? or same I believe (PM here PM there)

At 7PM in Toronto it's 11AM in NZ.
But at 11AM in Toronto it's 3AM in NZ.

So no.
 
  • #37
Couldn't you just favorite that website or something and whenever you would like to know the time just hop on and check?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=22

Or maybe even you could just change your computer time zone to be the time zone you would like to know... that way it is always showing.
 
  • #38
Sorry! said:
Couldn't you just favorite that website or something and whenever you would like to know the time just hop on and check?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=22

Or maybe even you could just change your computer time zone to be the time zone you would like to know... that way it is always showing.

Not all of us spend our waking lives at the computer.
 
  • #39
DaveC426913 said:
Not all of us spend our waking lives at the computer.

ok?
I'm sure you're not planning on walking around with a wall clock or two watches or something.
 
  • #40
Sorry! said:
ok?
I'm sure you're not planning on walking around with a wall clock or two watches or something.

It will hang on the wall. In my house. Where it can be seen from yards away. Say, from the couch where the phone is.


If I didn't know you were yankin' my chain, I'd say you're a bit sheltered...
 
  • #41
DaveC426913 said:
OK, if this were for me, I'd have no problem with mil time.

Thing about a wife is that one can't "do her an unsolicited favour" and then turn around and tell her she needs to be trained to use the thing.

By definition, it has to make her life easier, not harder.

:smile: No good deed goes unpunished. Have you shown her the pictures of the clocks and asked if that really would work for her? I agree with Borek that it would be harder to break the habit of reading a clock based on the usual positions of the numbers/hands than to learn to convert from 24 hour time to 12 hour time. But, since it's your wife who needs to use it, you might want to check before buying one.

You could get two cheap clocks. Get one with 12 hour time and one with 24 hour time. Use the one with 12 hour time to tell her what the clock time is, and then paste a new face of one half white and one half black on the 24 hour clock for day and night to use as the AM/PM clock, mounted just below it or next to it. :biggrin: Or, you could get a 24 hour clock for yourself, and just stick a post-it note in the middle of the other clock whenever it switches from AM to PM or vice versa. :smile:
 
  • #42
DaveC426913 said:
At 7PM in Toronto it's 11AM in NZ.
But at 11AM in Toronto it's 3AM in NZ.

So no.

Sun here, moon there works for both cases :D
 
  • #43
DaveC426913 said:
As long as I can have two of them within two weeks, for about $20 apiece... :wink:

Unfortunately, Google Sketchup does not work with Linux. I was going to incorporate a fourth (or third) hand, to point one way for AM and another for PM, using a system of gears, or a dial that was labeled AM and PM. You can probably find one anyway, but it will probably be mildly expensive.
 
  • #44
rootX said:
Sun here, moon there works for both cases :D

My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?
 
  • #45
DaveC426913 said:
My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?

Almost bedtime, since there's no way NZ is only 5 hours ahead of you!
 
  • #46
DaveC426913 said:
My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?

Yes there are some slight differences. But, it wouldn't be hard at all after 1-2 days. It would be easier to tell the time without even giving a thought. I believe this idea of clock is bit lame, and it is not impressive enough. A gift card and letting her decide what she wants would be better :biggrin:
 
  • #47
cristo said:
Almost bedtime, since there's no way NZ is only 5 hours ahead of you!
As someone who spent several years doing usability R&D, I am used to managers and execs thinking that anyone (i.e. themselves) are so easily able to accomplish some task. They think this because they assume ideal conditions for themslves and for the task (as you and many others are doing).

It is not until I show them videotaped sesssions of real users trying to accomplish real tasks in real environments that they realize just how fractured a real person's life is, and how much attention anyone task can be afforded. More importantly, how thoughtless some tasks need to be made in order for the task to actually help them, rather than tie up brain cycles better spent on other things.




Open and close buttons on elevators are the same size and look very similar. If I showed you both buttons and asked you to open the doors, you would easily identify the right button and press it. Easy-peasy.

But in real-life, you're not expecting to have to act, you're busy reading your paper, and suddenly an old lady gets her arm caught in the door.

You should not have to think about which button to press. You should not have to read the symbol on the button. Even if only for a second, this can require the full faculties of your brain (i.e. your visual acuity, pattern recognition (to tell the difference between two very similar buttons), and then your language intrepretion to determine what symbol results in the preferred action.)

No. It should be automatic. It should require no brain cycles to interpret.

How?

One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)
 
  • #48
rootX said:
But, it wouldn't be hard at all after 1-2 days. It would be easier to tell the time without even giving a thought.
Again, you are making assumptions about usage. And your assumptions presume a more ideal situation (i.e learnability through repetition) than reality.

What if she only gets or makes phone call once a week? Too rare to get used to anything.
 
  • #49
Revolutionary idea:

Buy regular 12-hour clock.
If it is AM where you are, it is PM where new zealand is.

or do the 24 hour clock, make each half have 1-12 on it, and have one side red for AM, black for PM.
 
  • #50
DaveC426913 said:
One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)

Great points, Dave. Great idea about the ergos of the elevator buttons as well. Those two freaking buttons have frustrated me lots of times.

As a supporting point -- In EMS, we deal with folks and equipment in very stressful situations. So yeah, we look to make the equipment and supplies as easy to use as possible. If something doesn't work easily and intuitively when you need iit, you spend time later to fis it so that it's easy to use it no matter how crazy the situation is. Even as simple a concept as how to close and position zippers on equipment bags (both zippers come together mid-seam). Or the convenience tabs on velcro straps holding your O2 tank in its jump bag...
 
  • #51
DaveC426913 said:
As someone who spent several years doing usability R&D

That makes me even more surprised that you think 24h face will be easy to use when it works against life time reflexes.

Could be you know something about your wife I don't know :wink:
 
  • #52
MotoH said:
Revolutionary idea:

Buy regular 12-hour clock.
If it is AM where you are, it is PM where new zealand is.
Yessir. That's certainly revolutionary. It hasn't been thought of since https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2520215&postcount=36"...

MotoH said:
or do the 24 hour clock, make each half have 1-12 on it, and have one side red for AM, black for PM.
Yes.

Borek said:
That makes me even more surprised that you think 24h face will be easy to use when it works against life time reflexes.
Yes, that is the problem as defined : i.e. that intuitively knowing what time it is in a different part of the world is not a normal circumstance.

I can't do anything about having the problem, all I can do is find the best solution. Right?

I am certainly open to more intuitive solutions. Got any?
 
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  • #53
DaveC426913 said:
One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)

It should be opposite :). I would love where there is no open button at all. The elevator should be able to detect if some object is at its door hence not close the door. With big open button, I would never be able to reach my destination floor.
 
  • #54
DaveC426913 said:
Again, you are making assumptions about usage. And your assumptions presume a more ideal situation (i.e learnability through repetition) than reality.

What if she only gets or makes phone call once a week? Too rare to get used to anything.

If it is used too often, you agree that any thing will work. If it is too rare, why wouldn't the person go to the computer and just find the time.
 
  • #56
rootX said:
It should be opposite :). I would love where there is no open button at all. The elevator should be able to detect if some object is at its door hence not close the door. With big open button, I would never be able to reach my destination floor.

They do that already, in two ways. If someone is already trying to get into the door, there is a sensor that stops it from closing and squashing the person. If they haven't gotten their hand into the door yet, if they just smack the up or down button before the doors finish closing, or even as they JUST close, most elevators will open the doors again. This actually gets very annoying at work on the elevator near the cafeteria at lunch time, because people will decide to wait for the next "less crowded" elevator, but keep pressing the button before the crowded elevator leaves, so the door keeps opening again. :rolleyes:
 
  • #57
DaveC426913 said:
No. It should be automatic. It should require no brain cycles to interpret.

I think that's the point people are trying to make though. Completely changing a clock face from what you are used to reading requires a lot of thought to interpret. Do you really LOOK at numbers on a clock? I have watches that don't even have numbers. I don't read the numbers, I just know intuitively where the hands point. If suddenly a hand pointing in the same place means a completely different time, you're very likely to misread it, or need more time to read it.

Digital clocks avoid that problem, but an analog does not.
 
  • #58
Moonbear said:
Do you really LOOK at numbers on a clock? I have watches that don't even have numbers. I don't read the numbers, I just know intuitively where the hands point.

I have found it goes even further than that for me. When I want to estimate how much time I have left I prefer to look at standard face clock, not at digital one. Digital one requires subtraction, face with hands gives instant intuitive answer :approve:
 
  • #59
Moonbear said:
I think that's the point people are trying to make though. Completely changing a clock face from what you are used to reading requires a lot of thought to interpret.
The trouble is: it is unavoidable. The task at-hand is not simply a matter of "what time is it right now?", which is what most people are comparing it to when proposing their flawed solutions.

Moonbear said:
Digital clocks avoid that problem, but an analog does not.
Actually, this is true. I had not thought of it that way.
 
  • #60
DaveC426913 said:
Open and close buttons on elevators are the same size and look very similar. If I showed you both buttons and asked you to open the doors, you would easily identify the right button and press it. Easy-peasy.

But in real-life, you're not expecting to have to act, you're busy reading your paper, and suddenly an old lady gets her arm caught in the door.

Hear, Hear! I NEVER get them right. Can't tell you how many times I have either closed an elevator door on someone when trying to 'help', or just could not choose in the required time. As far a elevators are concerned I don't even try any more.
 

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