How to Evaluate the Magnetic Field Using Jefimenko's Equations?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the magnetic field using Jefimenko's equations, specifically focusing on the first part of the problem under the approximation where r is much greater than r'. Participants are examining the implications of Taylor expansion and integration by parts in the context of magnetic field calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to evaluate terms generated from the Taylor expansion of the magnetic field equation, expressing uncertainty about the application of the derivative operator during integration by parts. Some participants question the feasibility of pulling the derivative operator out of the integral when evaluated at a specific point.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing guidance on the limitations of applying integration by parts in three dimensions. There is acknowledgment of the complexity involved in the integration process, particularly regarding the divergence of integrals over arbitrary volumes.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of missing terms in the original equation and the challenges posed by working with three-dimensional integrals, which may not follow typical one-dimensional integration rules. The discussion reflects a mix of theoretical exploration and practical concerns regarding the calculations involved.

Pengwuino
Gold Member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
20
I'm looking to evaluate the magnetic field using Jefimenko's equations. There is two parts to it but I'm just looking at the first. The approximation is r>>r' where r' is localized about the origin. The Jefimenko's equation for the magnetic field (the first term that I'm having trouble with) has:

B(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} ,t) = \frac{{\mu _0 }}{{4\pi }}\int\limits_v {d^3 x&#039;\{ [J(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x}&#039; ,t&#039;)]_{ret} \times \frac{{\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over R} }}{{R^3 }}} \}

R = |\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} - \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;|

using the taylor expansion:

\frac{1}{{|\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} - \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;|^3 }} \approx \frac{1}{{|\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} |^3 }} + \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039; \cdot [\nabla &#039;(\frac{1}{{|\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} - \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;|^3 }})]_{\vec x&#039; = 0}

Now, 4 terms are generated. One will go away, one is easily solved, but what I'm having trouble with are terms like this:

\frac{{ - \mu _0 }}{{4\pi }}\int\limits_v {(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039; \cdot [\nabla &#039;(\frac{1}{{R^3 }})]_{\vec x&#039; = 0} )\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039; \times [J(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} ,t&#039;)]_{ret} d^3 x}

I want to pull the derivative operator off the 1/R^3 through an integration by parts but since it's evaluated at r'=0, I'm not exactly confident on how to do that. I want the derivative operator on things such as \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039; \times [J(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;,t&#039;)]_{ret} which are somewhat like the magnetic moment once integrated but wonder if I still evaluate the original part at r'=0 or does the evaluation switch over to the part I'm now using the derivative operator on? Or does it go onto both now?

Signed,
Confused in Antarctica
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Pengwuino said:
I want to pull the derivative operator off the 1/R^3 through an integration by parts but since it's evaluated at r'=0, I'm not exactly confident on how to do that.

You can't. As you said, \left.\mathbf{\nabla}&#039;\left[\frac{1}{|\textbf{x}-\textbf{x}&#039;|^3}\right]\right|_{\texbf{x}&#039;=0} is evaluated at \textbf{x}&#039;=0, making the result a function only of \textbf{x}. So, just calculate that function and pull it out of the integral since it has no dependence on the primed coordinates.
 
Also, you seem to be missing a term involving \mathbf{\dot{J}}(\textbf{x}&#039;,t_r) in your original equation.
 
Yes, I left out that term because I haven't looked at it yet, I was just wanting to post what part I was having problem with. After talking to a few people we came to the same conclusion however, doing the evaulation makes it impossible to pull off the gradiant I guess. I found out the hopefuly correct way of doing it and I shall give it a shot.
 
So now I'm stuck with doing these 3-dimensional integration by parts. I need to work with this integral. I'm trying to do it by integration by parts but since it's in 3 dimensions, I'm not sure how it's done. I'm quite amazed that I don't think I've ever run across a 3-dimensional IVP that didnt use Gauss' law or anything. The steps so far are:

\begin{array}{l}<br /> \int_V {(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} \cdot \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;)(} \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039; \times \left. {[J(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;,t&#039;)]} \right|_{ret} )d^3 x&#039; \\ <br /> u = (\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} \cdot \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;) \\ <br /> dw = \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} \times \left. {[J(\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} &#039;,t&#039;)]} \right|_{ret} )d^3 x&#039; \\ <br /> w = 2\mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over m} \\ <br /> du = ? \\ <br /> \end{array}

Now I figure I can't simply naively say that du = \mathord{\buildrel{\lower3pt\hbox{$\scriptscriptstyle\rightharpoonup$}} <br /> \over x} d^3 x&#039; because then I have a vector multiplying a vector. Doing the actual computation seems to give me:

du = xdx&#039; + ydy&#039; + zdz&#039;

and now I have just a sum of 3 integrations. Is this all correct mathematically? It's worrisome because the integral over prime coordinates diverge since the integration is over an arbitrary volume.
 
In one dimesion, integration by parts is derived from the product rule:

(fg)&#039;=f&#039;g+fg&#039;\implies \int f&#039;g dx=\int(fg)&#039;dx-\int fg&#039; dx= fg-\int fg&#039; dx

In 3 dimensions, things are not so simple; there are actually 8 product rules and each leads to a different variation of integration by parts. So, in order to use IBP in vector calculus, you need to select an appropriate product rule.

For example, if I wanted to calculate \int f(\textbf{r})(\mathbf{\nabla}g(\textbf{r}))\cdot d\textbf{r} over some curve, I might find it useful to use the product rule \mathbf{\nabla}(fg)=(\mathbf{\nabla}f)g+f(\mathbf{\nabla}g) to transfer the derivative to g instead.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
4K
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K
Replies
5
Views
2K