Explaining Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles

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In summary, the conversation discusses the behavior of particles in a sphere with a diameter of twenty billion light years. It is assumed that these particles are moving randomly with no extreme bias and that collisions between them cause them to join into bodies. It is also suggested that at some point, all particles will have collided and no more collisions will occur, leading to the remaining bodies moving away from each other. The idea of an explosion from a central point of critical mass is also discussed, with some disagreement on its necessity to explain the movement of celestial bodies. The concept of a finite universe with a boundary and center is also brought up, with the possibility of an infinite universe being considered.
  • #1
Thor
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Assume you have a field of particles in a sphere which is twenty billion light years in diameter.

Assume these particles are moving - randomly vectored at random velocities with no extreme bias for direction or velocity.

Assume that as those particles collide, mass attraction causes most of them conjoin into bodies.

At some point in time, all particles/bodies which were destined to collide will have done so and no more collisions will occur.

This means all of the remaining bodies comprised of initial particles must be moving away from each other.

An explosion from a central point of critical mass in not required to explain why celestial bodies are fleeing each other.
 
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  • #2
Your point? No modern theorist considers the Big Bang an 'explosion' in a pre-existing coordinate system.
 
  • #3
Thor said:
Assume you have a field of particles in a sphere which is twenty billion light years in diameter.

Assume these particles are moving - randomly vectored at random velocities with no extreme bias for direction or velocity.

Assume that as those particles collide, mass attraction causes most of them conjoin into bodies.

At some point in time, all particles/bodies which were destined to collide will have done so and no more collisions will occur.
It's not only possible, but quite reasonable, that the collisions will never stop totally, but only decrease in frequency.

This means all of the remaining bodies comprised of initial particles must be moving away from each other.

This does not follow at all from your initial assumptions.
 
  • #4
Assume that as those particles collide, mass attraction causes most of them conjoin into bodies.

Not true . As per QM , particles at large distances will attract and at some equilibrium point will become stationary and when approach too close to each other, they start repelling each other unless the velocities of approach are tremendously high.Mass attraction never merges two particles unless one particle is an antiparticle of the other, in which case, when they approach each other too close, they annihilate releasing energy

BJ
 
  • #5
Thor said:
Assume you have a field of particles in a sphere which is twenty billion light years in diameter.

Assume these particles are moving - randomly vectored at random velocities with no extreme bias for direction or velocity.

Assume that as those particles collide, mass attraction causes most of them conjoin into bodies.

At some point in time, all particles/bodies which were destined to collide will have done so and no more collisions will occur.

This means all of the remaining bodies comprised of initial particles must be moving away from each other.

An explosion from a central point of critical mass in not required to explain why celestial bodies are fleeing each other.

Incorrect proposition!..the core Mass Particles(Matter-Density) will have a Time Dependant effect on Particles at the furthest Horizon, this will most definitely cause the Field Density( Particles surrounding Core, or Volume of Less Density), to be actually highly attracted in the Direction of the central region Core.

This would be a definate location recognizable as a Universal Density Profile for ordinary Matter?

Assume that as those particles collide, mass attraction causes most of them conjoin into bodies. ..but as the Density increases, it thins out at the farthest extremeties, this would invoke a Phase Transition, or in your model an Inverse Collapse of Matter, which THEN, may have an outward evolution of Field Energies, and guess what your back to Square One!
 
  • #6
Thor said:
At some point in time, all particles/bodies which were destined to collide will have done so and no more collisions will occur.
I think yuou forget the gravity, which works only one way (attraction) . Static solution of gravitating matter is not stable so you need an expanding universe. Once you have an expanding universe then you can not avoind the big bang (initial very hot and denser phase of matter)
 
  • #7
Chronos said:
Your point? No modern theorist considers the Big Bang an 'explosion' in a pre-existing coordinate system.

I stated the proposition poorly - tired last night.
Better stated:
Given a finite number of vectors of random direction and velocity within any finite volume, within a finite period of time all collisions which could take place will take place. Unless new vectors are introduced, that finite set of vectors altered by collision will eventually exit the volume, moving away from each other.
It is small wonder the Universe 'seems' to be expanding.
 
  • #8
Thor said:
At some point in time, all particles/bodies which were destined to collide will have done so and no more collisions will occur.

This means all of the remaining bodies comprised of initial particles must be moving away from each other.
Such models were considered when the expansion of the universe was first discovered. However the evidence points to a hot, dense beginning, e.g.

1) Singularity theorems of General relativity
2) Cosmic microwave background radiation
3) Helium abundance
 
  • #9
If the universe is a sphere with a boundary, Thor, why can't we see the boundary?

If the universe is a sphere with a boundary, it would also have a center: why can't we see a center - indeed, why can't we see that galaxies are moving away from the center?
 
  • #10
Thor said:
It is small wonder the Universe 'seems' to be expanding.

Sometimes I imagine myself riding a trajectory in the Lorenz Attractor and wondering what I'd see . . . an expanding Universe all about me? :smile:
 
  • #11
russ_watters said:
If the universe is a sphere with a boundary, Thor, why can't we see the boundary?
I don't contend the Universe has a boundary. Indeed, many of the collisions indicated in the premise would occur OUTSIDE the 'finite' volume.
If the universe is a sphere with a boundary, it would also have a center: why can't we see a center - indeed, why can't we see that galaxies are moving away from the center?
If the Universe were finite, it would have to feature a geometric center; however, I do not contend the Universe is finite - Euclidean, curved or otherwise.

Given an INfinite Universe, then because infinity is undefined, EVERY point in the Universe may be considered its center: Using any given point in space as an X,Y,Z axis, one may theoretically extend equidistant lines to infinity throughout the spectrum of polar coordinates. The procedure inscribes a sphere which theoretically encompasses the Universe. By definition, the selected point is the center of that sphere - and the center of the Universe. Since the same can be done for all points in the Universe, every point in the cosmos is its center.

(Actually you can use ANY shape and the result would be the same - every point is the geometric center)
 
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  • #12
Chronos said:
Your point? No modern theorist considers the Big Bang an 'explosion' in a pre-existing coordinate system.
Yes, the expanding balloon...Big Bang occurred EVERYWHERE at once.
Unfortunately, the expanding balloon at T=Ø must have been deflated to a single point. No matter how many logical firey hoops you jump thru it doesn't wash.

To contend that the Universe had a "beginning" is to posit that "once upon a time there was an after which had no before." Sounds rather silly, doesn't it?
 
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What is the concept of "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles"?

The concept of "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles" refers to the scientific explanation of the movement and interactions of celestial bodies, such as planets, moons, and stars, within a sphere of particles. This sphere is known as the Solar System and is composed of various particles, such as dust, gas, and ice, that are held together by the force of gravity.

How does the sphere of particles affect the movement of celestial bodies?

The sphere of particles affects the movement of celestial bodies through the force of gravity. This force is responsible for keeping the particles in the sphere together and also for the movement of celestial bodies within the sphere. As celestial bodies move, they interact with the particles in the sphere, which can cause changes in their trajectory and speed.

What are some key factors that influence the movement of celestial bodies in a sphere of particles?

The movement of celestial bodies in a sphere of particles is influenced by several key factors, including the mass and density of the celestial body, the distance between the celestial body and the center of the sphere, and the gravitational pull of other nearby celestial bodies. These factors can also be affected by external forces, such as collisions with other objects or the influence of a larger celestial body, like the sun.

How does the concept of "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles" relate to the laws of physics?

The concept of "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles" is closely related to the laws of physics, specifically the laws of motion and gravity. These laws explain how objects move and interact with each other, including the movement of celestial bodies within a sphere of particles. The study of celestial body movement also helps to further our understanding of these fundamental laws of physics.

What are some practical applications of understanding "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles"?

Understanding "Celestial Body Movement in a Sphere of Particles" has several practical applications, such as predicting the movement of celestial bodies for astronomical observations and space travel, studying the formation and evolution of the Solar System, and developing technologies for space exploration. It also allows us to better understand our place in the universe and how celestial bodies interact with each other on a larger scale.

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