What does touch look like in the subatomic world?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of "touch" in the subatomic world, questioning whether actual "touching" occurs at this scale and what it might look like. Participants examine the nature of interactions between charged particles and the implications of quantum mechanics and extreme gravitational conditions on these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that what we perceive as "touch" is actually a sensation resulting from repulsion between charged particles, rather than direct contact.
  • Others describe various phenomena related to subatomic "touch," including electron orbitals and interactions described by quantum fields.
  • A participant introduces extreme conditions, such as those in neutron stars, where electrons may merge with protons to form neutrons, challenging the applicability of the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • There is mention of the Unruh effect, where an accelerating observer may perceive particles differently than a stationary observer, complicating the notion of "touch."
  • Some participants clarify that neutrons formed in neutron stars are not merely quasi-neutrons but actual neutrons resulting from weak interactions, which leads to a discussion about the stability of neutron stars.
  • Overlapping wave functions of particles, particularly electrons, are proposed as a potential analogy for "touching" at the subatomic level.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of "touch" at the subatomic level, with no consensus reached on whether actual "touching" occurs or how to conceptualize it. Some points are clarified or corrected, but disagreements remain regarding the implications of these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of "touch," the complexity of quantum interactions, and the unresolved nature of certain theoretical concepts discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, quantum mechanics, and the nature of fundamental interactions at the subatomic level.

markb287
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What does "touch" look like in the subatomic world?

From my understanding, what looks like touch for us (e.g. my hand pressed against a wall) is not actually "touch," but a sensation. The charged particles in my hand are not actually "touching" the inversely charged particles in the wall, but are instead repelled by them, and it is this repulsion that gives me the sensation (and appearance) of touching. However, is there a phenomenon of actual "touching" for subatomic phenomena? If so, what would this look like? Do we have a picture for it?
 
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Hi Markb..welcome to physics forums...lotsa fun here!

Subatomic 'touch' includes a variety of phenomena.,,.some beyond our imagination. In the low gravity environment we usually find ourselves in, electron orbitals in your hand come close to those in,say, a fork. Repulsion keeps them from actually 'touching' yet describing this via quantum fields introduces a sort of touch...an interaction. But radioactive decay can split particles apart as radiation is emitted from a former higher energy state. In a very high gravity, like a neutron star for example, electrons are forced by immense gravity into the protons of the nucleus...and the combined particle behaves as a neutral neutron...The Pauli exclusion principle no longer applies.

This extreme condition can go even further if the star was above about 1.5 solar masses...Such a mass can collapse into a black hole where the former subatomic particles seem to 'disappear' in a singularity...a spacetime so distorted by gravity that our theoretical mathematics diverges...that is, we approach 'infinities'...like a mathematical series that fails to converge. It could be in the environment at the singularity, space,time,particle, everything merges into a quantum foam where none is distinguishable. Not unlike right near the Big Bang that initiated our universe.

As if THAT weirdness isn't enough: Sometimes I can observe particles you cannot! If you and I are adjacent, and I am accelerating and you are not, I will observe a theoretical set of particles you do not...This is called the Unruh effect and is widely accepted as accurate, but is not yet proven...As a result I will measure a different temperature accelerating than you do without acceleration. So not only can you not 'touch' my particles, you can't even detect them!
 
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The charged particles in my hand are not actually "touching" the inversely charged particles in the wall, but are instead repelled by them

If the charges were inverse, or opposite I assume you mean, they would not repel, they would attract. In fact, if it were inverse-opposite ANTI-matter you were touching, then you would blow up and take the Vatican along with you, like in Angels and Demons. How's that for a picture? See the "do not touch" sign? I would mind that, cause that would be a touch...a touch too much.
 


Naty1 said:
and the combined particle behaves as a neutral neutron...The Pauli exclusion principle no longer applies.
Neutrons are fermions, the principle applies to them as well - which generates enough pressure to keep the neutron star stable.

However, is there a phenomenon of actual "touching" for subatomic phenomena?
Overlapping wave functions of the particles (here: electrons) have some similarity to "touching".
 


Naty1 said:
...and the combined particle behaves as a neutral neutron...

The combined particles do not only behave like a neutron, they are actually neutrons. The electrons and protons are turned into neutrons and neutrinos by weak interaction. The neutrions escape immediately, so only neutrons stay in the star.

These neutrons are not some quasi-neutrons that would still somehow contain protons and electrons. They are full-fledged neutrons without any protons or electrons involved.
 


just reading through this forums is the most beautiful thing I ever did!
I recently did a basics course on physics over at fxphd and now this whole thing caught me so badly. Can anyone recommend me any basic books of Physics and Mathematics which go into rather theoretical from explaining with examples on what and how like Naty1 did?
I am heavily interested in all kind of weird things and read a lot about cellular automata/ chaos mathematics, but quantum physics/ physics seems to be the new interest.
 

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