I'm gonna pretend to be deep now

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The discussion explores the nature of belief, perception, and the existence of God through a mix of philosophical musings and personal anecdotes. It begins with a metaphorical description of an unseen world accessible only through inner senses, challenging conventional understanding. The conversation shifts to the validity of experiences of absence versus presence in the context of God, referencing Michael Martin's arguments on atheism. Participants share surreal experiences and dreams, reflecting on the significance of unusual events in memory and perception. The dialogue also critiques the tendency to use poetic language in philosophical discourse, suggesting it may obscure meaning rather than clarify it. Some participants interpret the thread as a mockery of religious idealism, while others see it as a serious exploration of mystical experiences. The discussion culminates in humorous exchanges about enlightenment and the absurdity of existence, emphasizing the subjective nature of reality and belief. Overall, the thread serves as a platform for examining the intersection of faith, perception, and the human experience.
Zero
My children, I see a world beyond this one, that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind. Only by using the eyes of your heart, the ears of your soul, and the fingers of your pancreas, can you see hear, and touch this invisible world. Do you doubt me? If you only believed hard enoughj, clap your hands,and click your heals together, it will be so. The interruptions and breaks in teh timeflow obscure teh messages from teh past, but the future is like a rainbow trout, swimming in a sea of paperclips.
 
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"Since experiences of God are good grounds for the existence of God, are not experiences of the absence of God good grounds for the nonexistence of God? After all, many people have tried to experience God and have failed. Cannot these experiences of the absence of God be used by atheists to counter the theistic argument based on experience of the presence of God?"
Michael Martin, Atheism: A Philosophical Justification
 
I once dropped a beer bottle off a 100ft tower, it fell, and 90ft before the ground wind caught it and it hit the steel structure of the tower only to bounce 10ft up and then down onto some rocks where it bounced again and spun over to another pile of jagged rocks only to bounce again and gentle land on the ground, where it rolled very slowly, and as if God himself where playing a joke on us it slowly rolled into a rock just right and cracked. We all laughed in amazement, but then I wouldn't have remembered it if it had just smashed like normal, It's hard to remember routine stuff, it's the odd things we remember most.
 
Once, I fell asleep, and I felt like I had lost my arm. I wandered through a weird landscape, that I had never sen, that I had always been in, and whenI awoke, I had slept on my arm, proof that the dream was real.
 
Once I Dreamed I was a butterfly, or am I really a butterfly dreaming I am a man?

Chuang Tzu

Is it romance, reality, idealism, or the ineffable?

You decide.
 
Walking through the night, I can feel ...stuff. I am smarter than you, if you don't feel...stuff. Ummmm...



Crap, I can't pull it off!
 
Actually God doesn't exist for everyone. This is why He created hell. So you can believe whatever you want. Hey it don't bother me none.

Actually you're not judged so much upon what you believe, in as much as what you do with what you believe. In which case you're likely to find many "so-called" Christians in hell.
 
I'm probably the stupedest person here for
asking - but I'm gon'na ask anyway :
What is the purpose of this thread ?
 
Originally posted by drag
I'm probably the stupedest person here for
asking - but I'm gon'na ask anyway :
What is the purpose of this thread ?
I think it's supposed to be a mockery of religious idealism (or faith).
 
  • #10
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Actually God doesn't exist for everyone. This is why He created hell. So you can believe whatever you want. Hey it don't bother me none.

Actually you're not judged so much upon what you believe, in as much as what you do with what you believe. In which case you're likely to find many "so-called" Christians in hell.

No, Gods and Goddesses lve inside of all of us, but outside too, in the gardem of celery and hope. We are judged by the great ,master who sits in the beer keg throne and mumbles incoherently, thereby proving his wisdom.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by Iacchus32
I think it's supposed to be a mockery of religious idealism (or faith).

Mockery? When I see the spoon, and know its place, you say mockery?? I have dreamed of the tower with seven spires, I KNOW!
 
  • #12
if this is a mockery, it is a mockery of people who are obscure, and believe they are deep. Talking like Yoda doesn't make you a Jedi Master...
 
  • #13
if this is a mockery, it is a mockery of people who are obscure, and believe they are deep. Talking like Yoda doesn't make you a Jedi Master...

Oooooohhhhhh, that's so deep. Tell us more oh great one! How do we become like master Yoda!
 
  • #14
Breath deep the gathering gloom ... Watch lights fade from every room.

Bedsitter people look back and lament ... Another day's useless energy spent.

Impassioned lovers wrestle as one ... Lonely man cries for love and has none.

New mother picks up and suckles her son ... Senior Citizens wish they were young.

Cold hearted orb that rules the night ... Removes the colours from our sight.

Red is grey and yellow white ... But we decide which is right ... And which is an illusion? ...
 
  • #15
Originally posted by wuliheron
How do we become like master Yoda!
wooo... You must feel the FORCE inside you ! wooo...
And then you ought to slap your face real hard
and say - What the HELL is all that BS I just
thought about ?! I MUST get real !

Peace and long life.
 
  • #16
It's a mockery?!

Uh, my interpretation was that this is a thread warning against an over-reliance on poetic imagery in philosophy.

Or maybe it's a textual version of one of those ink blotty things...
 
  • #17
Originally posted by FZ+
It's a mockery?!

Uh, my interpretation was that this is a thread warning against an over-reliance on poetic imagery in philosophy.

Or maybe it's a textual version of one of those ink blotty things...
Didn't you read the first post? Can't you see that he's speaking about a very "mystical experience?" Or, is he just mocking the whole idea of it?

While in the second post, BouldHead tries to validate "his ideas" about atheism ... which is kind of a take off from "knocking religion."
 
  • #18
Well, maybe the ink blot thing might be right after all.

Because the case can be made what that the point of the post is that it dealt with issues in a way that cannot be countered logically, and was hence an exercise in obscuration. It all depends on which part you emphasise.
The interruptions and breaks in teh timeflow obscure teh messages from teh past, but the future is like a rainbow trout, swimming in a sea of paperclips.
For example, if you focus on this statement, it seems abundantly clear that there is no relevance to spiritualism.
My children, I see a world beyond this one, that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind.
And if you focus on this statement (notice phrase senses of the mind), the statement can be interpreted as mocking the idea of external reality beyond perception.

And boulderhead's particular interpretation simply reinforces my idea. This is a post about nothing. You fill the nothing with what you find important.
 
  • #19
I sensed that it somehow had something to do with the "mindlessness" of religion? Seeing as how that was the first thing he tossed out ... i.e., "that cannot be touched by the senses of the mind."
 
  • #20
Admit it. That's rather weak. It is a function of the brain that we select and paint over concepts in order to suit a pattern.
 
  • #21
Screw all that crap, I want to be a Jedi! Can't you guys recognize the wisdom of a master when you hear it!
 
  • #22
I don't think that this thread is a mockery, so much as I think that it is an important message to those of us who believe themselves to sound superior, when they start to speak in riddles/visions or say things like "my children".
 
  • #23
Originally posted by wuliheron
Screw all that crap, I want to be a Jedi!
Can't you guys recognize the wisdom of a
master when you hear it!

I think Mentat's response meant (in the same
tone as yours): Go levitate a frog or something !
 
  • #24
Awe... I'm tired of levitating frogs... I want to learn how to fly!
 
  • #25
Originally posted by Mentat
I don't think that this thread is a mockery, so much as I think that it is an important message to those of us who believe themselves to sound superior, when they start to speak in riddles/visions or say things like "my children".
I might agree with this if wasn't for the fact that Zero has conveyed to me, on more than occasion, that the practice of religion was a "mindless endeavor" (in so many words).

I still maintain that it sounds like a mockery of religion, or mysticism, or anything that smacks of it.
 
  • #26
Originally posted by Iacchus32
I might agree with this if wasn't for the fact that Zero has conveyed to me, on more than occasion, that the practice of religion was a "mindless endeavor" (in so many words).

I still maintain that it sounds like a mockery of religion, or mysticism, or anything that smacks of it.

I believe that those with the aforementioned (in my previous post) attitude are the ones who make a mockery of religion, mysticism, etc. I also think that these people are the ones that have influenced people like Zero, to despise such practices.
 
  • #27
Originally posted by wuliheron
Awe... I'm tired of levitating frogs... I want to learn how to fly!

Isn't that the same thing?

(Just kidding, btw)
 
  • #28
Originally posted by FZ+
And if you focus on this statement (notice phrase senses of the mind), the statement can be interpreted as mocking the idea of external reality beyond perception.
Isn't this the basic line of attack taken when mocking religion in this forum? That in fact religion is just a mockery of reality? Don't tell me it hasn't been implicitly implied as such ...
 
  • #29
No. I am saying here Zero sounds like lifegazer.
 
  • #30
Well, being familar with Zero, I can certainly see why one would think this thread is making fun of religion or anyone who doesn't subscribe to the meaningless, mechanical, box full of rocks view of the universe.

On the other hand, in a way, it is very, very, very much similar to that marvelous "Textrium of Existence" thread which did not have so broad a target.
 
  • #31
Originally posted by FZ+
No. I am saying here Zero sounds like lifegazer.
I never knew that I sounded like a sarcastic atheist. Thanks for pointing this irrational behaviour out to me.
 
  • #32
It is interesting that you took it as a personal attack, where I merely pointed out that the first sentence exactly corresponds to your objection to an external reality beyond perception. If you find that irrational, then that's your problem.
 
  • #33
Well . . . it seems to me that believing "nothing" is smarter than believing lots of things one hasn't personally experienced (as the "faithful" do).

On the other hand . . . let's consider an analogy. Say when you were 13 years old you fell in love (for the very first time) with the most beautiful 14 year old girl in the universe (which I did, or so it seemed). She convinces you that she loves you too, and all goes well until she meets a 17 year old boy and agrees to go steady with him. From that point on she never acknowledges your existence, which is so excruciatingly painful you decide to shut down all feelings of romantic love.

Now, thirty years later you are having discussions with people about romantic love, and you say you don't believe in it. When asked why, you say "because I feel nothing." But, if the reason you feel nothing is because you've shut off your feelings, then is it love that's not real, or is it you've undermined your ability to experience it?
 
  • #34
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Didn't you read the first post? Can't you see that he's speaking about a very "mystical experience?" Or, is he just mocking the whole idea of it?
Why not ask Zero directly, isn't he the one who ought to know? If some meaning can be had from the post then I would say 'take it'. For me Zero's post has some meaning, and this despite my having found it amusing.
While in the second post, BouldHead tries to validate "his ideas" about atheism ... which is kind of a take off from "knocking religion."
You mean validate my own thoughts or those of Zero? What is the difference between 'knocking religion' and presenting another way of looking at something?
 
  • #35
Originally posted by BoulderHead
You mean validate my own thoughts or those of Zero? What is the difference between 'knocking religion' and presenting another way of looking at something?
I mean take the opportunity to validate your own ideas based on him knocking religion.

Of course I doubt that I would have said anything if drag hadn't asked what the thread was about ...

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Originally posted by drag
I'm probably the stupedest person here for
asking - but I'm gon'na ask anyway :
What is the purpose of this thread ?
I think it's supposed to be a mockery of religious idealism (or faith).
 
  • #36
Children, fellow seekers, Take heart in my return. I see your questions, and I know the answer lies on the first page of the Holy Scroll, if you seek true wisdom with your heart, and your heart within your heart, and your heart within your heart within your chest...

I dreamed of a silver gate, and silver writing upon teh silver gate, and silver-armored guards at the gate...
 
  • #37
Originally posted by Zero
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Actually God doesn't exist for everyone. This is why He created hell. So you can believe whatever you want. Hey it don't bother me none.

Actually you're not judged so much upon what you believe, in as much as what you do with what you believe. In which case you're likely to find many "so-called" Christians in hell.
No, Gods and Goddesses lve inside of all of us, but outside too, in the gardem of celery and hope. We are judged by the great ,master who sits in the beer keg throne and mumbles incoherently, thereby proving his wisdom.
It's very funny you should mention this. Did you know that Iacchus was another name for Dionysus, and that Dionysus was originally the "god of beer" (as Iacchus) before he became the "god of wine?"

Just a coincidence? I for one don't believe in them.
 
  • #38
Originally posted by Iacchus32

It's very funny you should mention this. Did you know that Iacchus was another name for Dionysus, and that Dionysus was originally the "god of beer" (as Iacchus) before he became the "god of wine?"

Just a coincidence? I for one don't believe in them.


The gods of old are real, in the imagination of teh children...if you follow the pets, the door reveals itself.
 
  • #39
Originally posted by Fliption
Well, being familar with Zero, I can certainly see why one would think this thread is making fun of religion or anyone who doesn't subscribe to the meaningless, mechanical, box full of rocks view of the universe.

On the other hand, in a way, it is very, very, very much similar to that marvelous "Textrium of Existence" thread which did not have so broad a target.

Yes, anyone who thinks they can make a mock thread, bow to the king (Fliption).:wink:
 
  • #40
Originally posted by Zero
Children, fellow seekers, Take heart in my return. I see your questions, and I know the answer lies on the first page of the Holy Scroll, if you seek true wisdom with your heart, and your heart within your heart, and your heart within your heart within your chest...

I dreamed of a silver gate, and silver writing upon teh silver gate, and silver-armored guards at the gate...

Do you people see what I mean yet? Zero is talking just like the pious/pompous people who think themselves superior (and enlightened) because they happen to have had visions, or can speak in riddles/mysticisms. I personally think that there are quite a few who could learn from this thread. That's not to say that Zero isn't intending it to be a mockery of religion, but that's just not what I'm getting out of it.
 
  • #41
Originally posted by Zero
The gods of old are real, in the imagination of teh children...if you follow the pets, the door reveals itself.

...enlightenment is on the other side, but is it really possible to squeeze through the "doggy hole", as do the pets?
 
  • #42
Originally posted by Mentat
...enlightenment is on the other side, but is it really possible to squeeze through the "doggy hole", as do the pets?

You must squeeze your perceptions to match the door, not try to force teh door to match you..also, watch out for the doggy poo.
 
  • #43
Originally posted by Zero
You must squeeze your perceptions to match the door, not try to force teh door to match you..also, watch out for the doggy poo.

...which represents the results of unfounded conviction, without knowledge of your limits. My children, let go of your limits, and embrase the dog poo, only then will you find the true meaning of life.

(Hey, this is kind of fun)
 
  • #44
The Advent of Color

From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429" ...

Originally posted by Iacchus32
A source of universal information? Hmm... In other words the mind is like a receptacle, "or door," to another dimension?

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." (Revelation 4:1-5)

So here, with respect to the rainbow and seven lamps which, are the seven spirits of God, it seems to suggest the six basic colors of the color wheel in accord with the color white, where white is the center and the medium (white light): the 24 elders clothed in white? All of which are arrayed as follows:

Red (1), Orange (2), Yellow (3), White (4), Green (5), Blue (6) and Violet (7) ... which is further detailed by the following equations:

Red-Orange-Yellow (123) + White-White-White (444) = Green-Blue-Violet (567). Whereas Yellow (3) x White-Red (41) = Red-Orange-Yellow (123) and, Violet (7) x Gray-Red (81) = Green-Blue-Violet (567). And also, Yellow-Violet (37) x Red-Orange (12) = White-White-White (444).

See the pattern here? It's simliar to the color code used in electronics, while also portraying the pattern on the front cover of my book - http://www.dionysus.org/x0009.html - which is strange because I practice a form of meditation where, once I "tune in," I begin to see yellow smoke rings (3) set against a violet backdrop (7). And as it progresses, a smoke ring takes form, and then begins to diminish in size, until a new one forms to take its place, and on it goes ... All of which has something to do with the "spherical nature" of things and keeping one's thoughts "in context" (in the moment): i.e., Yellow-Violet (37) x Red-Orange (12) = White-White-White (444) ... where the color white is the medium (4/444) or white light itself.
In case anyone's interested, all of this is reflected in the design of my avatar to the left.

And yes, does anybody see anything remotely familiar between Zero's original post and the beginning of this post here?
 
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  • #45
And yes, does anybody see anything remotely familiar between Zero's original post and the beginning of this post here?
Erm... no.
 
  • #46
I dreamt last night, of a field of lilacs, and the end of my quest. Now, I understand all teh secrets of teh universe. I can levitate, because gravity doesn't apply to the enlightened.
 
  • #47
Originally posted by Zero
I dreamt last night, of a field of lilacs, and the end of my quest. Now, I understand all teh secrets of teh universe. I can levitate, because gravity doesn't apply to the enlightened.

Yet the field of lilacs are still on the ground...yes I know the dream well.
 
  • #48
Zero, I laughed like hell and needed to thanks.
 
  • #49
Originally posted by TENYEARS
Zero, I laughed like hell and needed to thanks.

Laughter is like leaves falling from a tree in autumn. You must rake the leaves, or they will rot on teh ground, and mushrooms will grow. If you eat the mushrooms, however, you will see wonders...and possibly Jerry Garcia.
 
  • #50
Originally posted by Zero
Laughter is like leaves falling from a tree in autumn. You must rake the leaves, or they will rot on teh ground, and mushrooms will grow. If you eat the mushrooms, however, you will see wonders...and possibly Jerry Garcia.
Yes, you have spoken wisely grasshopper ...
 

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