097 Change the second-order IVP into a system of equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a second-order initial-value problem into a system of first-order equations. The specific problem involves the differential equation $x'' + 6x' - 2x = 0$ with initial conditions $x(0) = 1$ and $x'(0) = 1$. Participants explore different methods for this conversion and clarify the initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to solve the characteristic equation $e^{rt}(r^2 + 6r - 2) = 0$ and finds roots $r = -3 \pm \sqrt{11}$, questioning if they are on the right track.
  • Another participant points out a misunderstanding, emphasizing that the task is to convert the second-order equation into two first-order equations, suggesting defining $y = x'$ and deriving the equations $x' = y$ and $y' = 6y + 2x$.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the need to convert the equation rather than solve it, with a suggestion to clarify the initial conditions for the new system of equations.
  • A later reply proposes a different representation using $u = x$ and $v = x'$, leading to the system $u' = v$ and $v' = 2u - 6v$.
  • One participant attempts to derive the initial values for the new system, suggesting $y = \sqrt{2}$ based on their calculations, but this is met with disagreement.
  • Another participant reiterates the need to focus on the conversion and correctly states the initial conditions as $x(0) = 1$ and $y(0) = 1$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of the problem and the correct approach to converting the second-order equation. Multiple competing views on the conversion process and the handling of initial conditions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight potential misunderstandings regarding the problem's requirements and the definitions used in the conversion process. There are unresolved aspects concerning the initial conditions in the context of the new system of equations.

karush
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$\tiny{2.1.5.1}$
Change the second-order initial-value problem into a system of equations
$x''+6x'-2x= 0\quad x(0)=1\quad x'(0)=1$
ok my first step was to do this
$e^{rt}(r^2+6r-2)=0$
using quadratic formula we get
$r=-3+\sqrt{11},\quad r=-3-\sqrt{11}$

just seeing if I going down the right roadđź•¶
 
Last edited:
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I think you are completely misunderstanding the problem!
You are trying to solve this initial value problem
(You have a typo, the characteristic equation is $r^2- 6r- 2= 0$ but you have $r^2- xr- 2= 0$.)
but you are not asked to do that. You are asked to convert this second order differential equation to two rirst order equations.

There are many ways to do that. The simplest is to define y= x'. The x''= y' and the equation so that the equation x''- 6x'- 2x= 0 becomes y'- 6y- 2x= 0 or y'= 6y+ 2x.

The two equations are
x'= y and
y'= 6y+ 2x.
 
Country Boy said:
I think you are completely misunderstanding the problem!
You are trying to solve this initial value problem
(You have a typo, the characteristic equation is $r^2- 6r- 2= 0$ but you have $r^2- xr- 2= 0$.)
but you are not asked to do that. You are asked to convert this second order differential equation to two rirst order equations.

There are many ways to do that. The simplest is to define y= x'. The x''= y' and the equation so that the equation x''- 6x'- 2x= 0 becomes y'- 6y- 2x= 0 or y'= 6y+ 2x.

The two equations are
x'= y and
y'= 6y+ 2x.

so what do we do with the initial values?
 
You now have two functions x(t) and y(t). You were told in the original problem that x(0)= 1 and that x'(0)= 1.
So what are x(0) and y(0) for the pair of first order equations?
 
karush said:
$\tiny{2.1.5.1}$
Change the second-order initial-value problem into a system of equations
$x''+6x'-2x= 0\quad x(0)=1\quad x'(0)=1$
ok my first step was to do this
$e^{rt}(r^2+6r-2)=0$
using quadratic formula we get
$r=-3+\sqrt{11},\quad r=-3-\sqrt{11}$

just seeing if I going down the right roadđź•¶

You haven't converted into a system of equations...

Let $\displaystyle u = x $ and $\displaystyle v = x' $, then your system of equations is

$\displaystyle \begin{align*} u' &= v \\ v' &= 2\,u - 6\,v \end{align*} $
 
Country Boy said:
You now have two functions x(t) and y(t). You were told in the original problem that x(0)= 1 and that x'(0)= 1.
So what are x(0) and y(0) for the pair of first order equations?

so $x'(0)=1=y$ and $x(0)=\int y dy =\dfrac{y^2}{2}=1$ then $y=\sqrt{2}$

kinda maybe

textbook source

 
karush said:
so $x'(0)=1=y$ and $x(0)=\int y dy =\dfrac{y^2}{2}=1$ then $y=\sqrt{2}$

kinda maybe

textbook source

NO! You are still completely misunderstanding. I recommend that you talk to your teacher about this.

Your original problem was to convert the second order equation to a pair of first order equations.

The original second order equation is x''- 6x'- 2x= 0 with initial conditions x(0)= 1 and x'(0)= 1.
I suggested defining y= x'(t) so that the equation becomes y'- 6y- 2x=0 or y'= 2x+ 6y.

So your two equation are x'= y and y'= 2x+ 6y. The initial conditions are x(0)= 1 and y(0)= x'(0()= 1.
 
void
 
Last edited:

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