12 killed in Navy Yard (DC) shooting

[Greg Bernhardt]

Twelve people were killed Monday after at least one shooter opened fire in a rampage at a Navy yard in the nation's capital, putting government buildings on lockdown and sending police SWAT teams rushing to the scene.
One suspect is dead, but two other gunmen may be on the loose, Washington Police Chief Cathy Lanier said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/us/dc-navy-yard-gunshots/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[arildno]

I feel for you all.

 

[Evo]

I spent so much time at the DC Navy Yard during the years that my first husband was stationed in DC while in the Navy, I used to work for the Navy Exchange in DC.

My thoughts go out to everyone there.

 

[Drakkith]

Wow...

 

[lisab]

What really is sad is that there is very little surprise about this, at least among my family and co-workers. Since this happened, I've talked to numerous coworkers, my mother, my husband, my daughter. Not one has said a word about this incident.

 

[Borg]

I really dislike the way that the media plasters the faces of these killers all over the front page. I understand that they're going to print their picture but, at least bury it deeper in the story. That kind of publicity just encourages the next one.

In 1989, I worked in the building next to a mass shooting in Kentucky. The two things that I most remember are being outside, seeing a police car rocket the wrong way through our parking lot on the way to the scene, and remarking that someone was really late for his donuts. The other was when I went back inside my building and found out that there was a shooting going on. It was a confused situation but people were saying that he was on the roof shooting into the street. What was bizarre was that everyone was standing next to a two story glass wall facing the building and trying to get a good look. I shook my head at the stupidity that I was seeing, went back to my sixth floor office and waited for the all-clear.

 

[turbo]

How did the shooter get a gun in there? The facility has a perimeter with armed guards and there are additional security checks once you get inside the perimeter fence.

 

[arildno]

I guess that once you have the security clearance, nobody bothers about you as a security risk..

 

[Borg]

How did the shooter get a gun in there? The facility has a perimeter with armed guards and there are additional security checks once you get inside the perimeter fence.

There are still a lot of rumors going on but from what I've read, this is what I think occurred. He did work there as a contractor and had a badge with a secret security clearance. There are no vehicle checks there so he was able to get a shotgun into the facility grounds in his vehicle. He then walked to the building, killed the security guard and picked up his service revolver and a rifle. He next used the rifle to rapid fire from a third floor balcony into a large mall-type cafeteria area. After that, I haven't heard but a responding police officer eventually shot him.

 

[turbo]

Thanks Borg. The news media here have not been terribly informative.

 

[Borg]

Thanks Borg. The news media here have not been terribly informative.

From the http://news.yahoo.com/contract-worker-behind-navy-yard-shooting-rampage-111847531.html, it says that the rifle was his as well. The fact that he had so many mental issues and still held a clearance is troubling.

U.S. law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that Alexis had been suffering a host of serious mental issues, including paranoia and a sleep disorder. He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said. Alexis had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said.
The Navy had not declared him mentally unfit, which would have rescinded a security clearance Alexis had from his earlier time in the Navy Reserves.

 

[Evo]

From the http://news.yahoo.com/contract-worker-behind-navy-yard-shooting-rampage-111847531.html, it says that the rifle was his as well. The fact that he had so many mental issues and still held a clearance is troubling.

Last night on the news, they showed he had a police record of violence. Someone messed up.

 

[chemisttree]

No rifle was used, just a shotgun and two pistols. I'm waiting to hear the nonsense begin that those high capacity magazines are just tooo dangerous.
Another crazy with a gun.

Amazing that he could do that much damage with just those from a 4th floor balcony? I guess Biden was right... it is better with a shotgun.

 

[turbo]

Last night on the news, they showed he had a police record of violence. Someone messed up.

Badly. So many failures on so many levels... If you are inside the perimeter fence of a Navy base and inside additional layers of security and ID checks, you should have a reasonable expectation of not being the target of a serial killer.

 

[Borg]

No rifle was used, just a shotgun and two pistols.

Got a link for that? The Yahoo article says that it was a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun.

Alexis carried three weapons: an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun that he took from a police officer at the scene

 

[ABD EL HAMEED]

Wait...what?but how?
This is the navy,right?so how did this happen?
All my sincerest regards to those who have been hurt or killed and their families
P.S.sorry if my English wasn't good and if I may said something that was misunderstood then I am very sorry

 

[chemisttree]

Got a link for that? The Yahoo article says that it was a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun.

Every story that reported an AR-15 was used was totally made up. FBI reports today no AR-15 was used. Interesting how many made up stories reported that he had lawfully purchased the AR-15 in Virginia just before the shooting! Some real whoppers! And you linked to one of them.

Just who was the source of this information and why is EVERY news outlet so willing to report unsubstianted information? I think I know why...

 

[Borg]

Every story that reported an AR-15 was used was totally made up. FBI reports today no AR-15 was used. Interesting how many made up stories reported that he had lawfully purchased the AR-15 in Virginia just before the shooting! Some real whoppers! And you linked to one of them.

Just who was the source of this information and why is EVERY news outlet so willing to report unsubstianted information? I think I know why...

All I see is an opinion with no links. Got any proof for your whoppers?

 

[chemisttree]

All I see is an opinion with no links. Got any proof for your whoppers?

I think you should do your own searching but Pamela Brown at CNN tweeted that the fbi field office just informed her that no AR-15 was used.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/e...y-yard-shooter-what-about-that-alleged-ar-15/

I also think you should knock off the personal attacks.

 

[BobG]

Every story that reported an AR-15 was used was totally made up. FBI reports today no AR-15 was used. Interesting how many made up stories reported that he had lawfully purchased the AR-15 in Virginia just before the shooting! Some real whoppers! And you linked to one of them.

Just who was the source of this information and why is EVERY news outlet so willing to report unsubstianted information? I think I know why...

All I see is an opinion with no links. Got any proof for your whoppers?

Navy Yard shooting: AR-15, back in the news -- briefly

Although they don't spell it out specifically, CNN was also the news organization responsible for reporting the AR-15 was purchased in Virginia just before the shooting. In other words, while errors are highly likely when reporting breaking stories, it's probably unfair to call them made up. They at least try to report the best knowledge they have at the time.

At this point, it might be a bit pre-mature to say conclusively what types of weapons were used and how they were obtained. Just going by what the majority of news media are using for their source (i.e. - all other reports except the one linked to), an AR-15 was probably used, but I wouldn't place any personal bets on the origin of the weapon.

 

[Evo]

Every story that reported an AR-15 was used was totally made up. FBI reports today no AR-15 was used. Interesting how many made up stories reported that he had lawfully purchased the AR-15 in Virginia just before the shooting! Some real whoppers! And you linked to one of them.

Just who was the source of this information and why is EVERY news outlet so willing to report unsubstianted information? I think I know why...

Let's not make this another gun thread. He used guns, it doesn't matter what kind. This article just came out and it's still confirming an AR-15, I don't think a single tweet is satisfactory, we'll need authorities to confirm. But it doesn't matter. He has a long history of criminal gun activity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/us/washington-navy-yard-shootings.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Borg]

I think you should do your own searching but Pamela Brown at CNN tweeted that the fbi field office just informed her that no AR-15 was used.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/e...y-yard-shooter-what-about-that-alleged-ar-15/

I also think you should knock off the personal attacks.

And I think that you should provide links like anyone else. I spent the last half hour searching for any link to prove your point but the link that you finally provided was the first that I've seen.

 

[chemisttree]

Let's not make this another gun thread. He used guns, it doesn't matter what kind. This article just came out and it's still confirming an AR-15, I don't think a single tweet is satisfactory, we'll need authorities to confirm. But it doesn't matter. He has a long history of criminal gun activity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/us/washington-navy-yard-shootings.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Authorities have confirmed what I've been saying.

 

[Evo]

Authorities have confirmed what I've been saying.

I still don't get why it matters to you what type of gun he used, he shot and killed people, he had a criminal and mental illness history, he shouldn't have been employed. That is what matters.

 

[jim hardy]

Another nut job who unfortunately slipped through the cracks in the system.

He apparently started with a shotgun and acquired more firepower on the scene.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ard-shooting-aaron-alexis-washington/2824793/

Valerie Parlave, chief of the FBI's Washington, D.C., field division, confirmed that Alexis was armed only with a shotgun when he arrived at the Navy Yard. Parlave said that Alexis was able to obtain a handgun at some point during the attack.

"At this time, we believe that Mr. Alexis entered Building 197 at the Navy Yard with a shotgun. We do not have any information at this time that he had an AR-15 in his possession."

After Alexis fired several rounds randomly on the people below, the official said, he ran down a flight of stairs where he confronted and shot a security officer.

It is believed that Alexis took the officer's handgun and returned to the overlook where he continued to shoot. At some point, the official said, Alexis again left the location and confronted a victim described as a maintenance person or building staffer. He shot that person and returned one last time to the overlook where he was ultimately killed in a confrontation with police.

I wonder if it'll turn out he too was on psychotropic medications.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/navy-yard-shooter_n_3943393.html

Federal law enforcement officials said Alexis had been suffering a host of serious mental problems, including paranoia and a sleep disorder, and VA health providers had been treating him since August.

The VA has referred questions about Alexis to the FBI

Some circles are suggesting a link.

http://www.psychintegrity.org/isepp_statement_on_the_connection_between_psychotropic_drugs_and_mass_murder.php

Christopher Pittman was on antidepressants when he killed his grandparents (2).

Eric Harris, one of the gunmen in the Columbine school shooting, was taking Luvox and Dylan Klebold, his partner, had taken Zoloft and Paxil (3).

Doug Williams, who killed five and wounded nine of his fellow Lockheed Martin employees, was on Zoloft and Celexa (4).

Michael McDermott was on three antidepressants when he fired off 37 rounds and killed seven of his fellow employees in the Massachusetts Wakefield massacre (5).

Kip Kinkel was on Prozac when he killed his parents and then killed 2 children and wounded 25 at a nearby school (6).

In fourteen recent school shoots, the acts were committed by persons taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs, resulting in over 100 wounded and 58 killed (7).

In other school shootings, information about the shooter’s prescription drug use and other medical history were kept from public records (7).

another interesting article here

http://www.ladailypost.com/content/brief-history-psychotropic-drugs-prescribed-mass-murderers

What follows is the result of my research and question, “What psychotropic drugs where prescribed to mass murders?” At the end of this article is a list of the drugs prescribed and their most serious adverse side effects.

John Hinckley (1981) John Hinckley, age 25, took four Valium two hours before shooting and almost killing President Ronald Reagan in 1981. In the assassination attempt, Hinckley also wounded press secretary James Brady, Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy and policeman Thomas Delahanty.

Laurie Dann (1988) In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, IL, killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the anti-depressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.

Patrick Purdy (1989) Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, CA, in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban "semiautomatic assault weapons" in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptvine, an anti-depressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.

Joseph T. Wesbecker (1989) In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Prozac maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.

Kurt Danysh (1996) Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danvsh's description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: "I didn't realize I did it until after it was done." Danysh said. "This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun."

Michael Carneal (1997) In Paducah, KY, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school's lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.

Kip Kinkel (1998) Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Ore., and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (1999) Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox. Like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of anti-depressant drug called Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999, during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves. Luvox manufacturer Solvav Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox - that's one in 25 - developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.

Larry Gene Ashbrook (1999) On Sept. 15, 1999, Larry Gene Ashbrook murdered seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian Rock group Forty Days at Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Ashbrook then committed suicide. A doctor had prescribed the anti-depressant drug Prozac for Larry Gene Ashbrook, but investigators are unsure whether he was taking it when he killed seven people and then himself in a Fort Worth church last week, police said on Monday. Fort Worth's Lt. Mark Krey, who is heading the investigation into the largest mass shooting in the city's history, said police have found a Prozac vial in Ashbrook's name and want to ask doctors why it was prescribed.

Is that connection the chicken or the egg?

 

[Borg]

Joseph T. Wesbecker (1989) In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Prozac maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.

That was the one in the link from my first post. That's as close as I ever wish to get to another one of those. From my experience, people were overly calm because they didn't see or hear anything. I didn't really feel afraid at the time either but I also didn't feel like hanging around to see if the situation might change.

 

[BobG]

I wonder if it'll turn out he too was on psychotropic medications.

Some circles are suggesting a link.

Is that connection the chicken or the egg?

It certainly could be because people with mental disorders are frequently prescribed medications.

Or, if we really want to open that door, is the link between prescription drugs and gun violence stronger than the link between non-prescription drugs (such as alcohol) and gun violence?

 

[chemisttree]

I believe he became violent, shooting out the tires of a construction worker's car after feeling disrespected and feeling that they were sending out "vibrations" to harm him. The "vibrations" would keep him up at night listening to voices that weren't there.

I think this is more about his mental illness than the drugs the doctors were using to treat him.

 

[jim hardy]

...

Or, if we really want to open that door, is the link between prescription drugs and gun violence stronger than the link between non-prescription drugs (such as alcohol) and gun violence?

That I don't know. Do you know of any studies?

I don't recall any mass shooters being reported drunk.
I do know a guy who got mad and drove his car into a bar, though he didn't hurt anybody.Assuming this statistic is accurate,
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/are-mass-shootings-really-on-the-rise/

it's not the runaway epidemic portrayed .

MADD made a difference by changing societal attitudes about DWI.

http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-fatalities-national-statisticsWe've got an entertainment industry that thrives on justified ultra-violence and revenge, from Mighty Mouse to Rambo . Kids are imprinted with it early.
Maybe we need to look into that paradigm as well.

old jim

 

[edward]

Alexis' employer said it had enlisted a service to make what appeared to be two standard, employment background checks on him over the past year, finding only a traffic violation while twice confirming his "secret"-level security clearance with the U.S. Defense Department.

"The latest background check and security clearance confirmation were in late June of 2013 and revealed no issues other than one minor traffic violation," The Experts, an information technology company, said in a statement.

There was apparently a security contractor working for a military sub contractor. I have experienced this recently. A woman working for a private security company came to my door to ask about my neighbor. The neighbor is a civilian sub contractor for Raytheon Missile Systems.

The questions she asked, read from a sheet of paper actually, would have never revealed anything that would indicate a mental problem. The questions were all in reference to national security. Questions like; Do you see anything that would tend to indicate he would attempt to overthrow the United States Government??

Police in Newport, Rhode Island, were so concerned about Alexis' behavior on a business trip there in August that they alerted Navy police.

The Newport police report said Navy police had promised to check if Alexis was in fact a naval base contractor.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-usa-navy-shooting-idUSBRE98F0DN20130918

Edit oops bold mine

 

[russ_watters]

MADD made a difference by changing societal attitudes about DWI.

Different issue, but I don't suppose that graphic is adjusted for the fact that overall car accident deaths have dropped precipitously in that time due to cars being safer, does it...?

 

[jim hardy]

Different issue, but I don't suppose that graphic is adjusted for the fact that overall car accident deaths have dropped precipitously in that time due to cars being safer, does it...?

Not intending to sidetrack the thread,
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r...tions/by_the_numbers/drunk_driving/index.html

However, drunk driving awareness and enforcement efforts such as Zero Tolerance Laws may be having a positive impact. The percentage of alcohol-related fatalities decreased from 50.6 percent in 1990 to 42 percent in 2009.

but their graphic goes back only to 2000; the percentage looks to be a relatively constant ~40% since then

MADD really got going mid 90's.
http://www.madd.org/about-us/history/madd-milestones.pdf


My point about entertainment industry being - much behavior is imitation of hero archetypes. Watch your old movies with an eye toward what behaviors kids are apt to imitate. The emotionally broken, smoldering ones in particular.

As an early boomer I was titillated by James Bond . That promiscuous lush had every young man's dream life. Shoulda stuck with Davy Crockett.