82-year-old who claims he has not had any food or water

[rtved]

Hm.

I am going to go without food or water, but apparently I can't live without bathing or gargling...


OK, now the experiment has been compromised.

Well, there is a problem with the information regarding water access for the entire 15 days study.The dailymail link nor the other mainstream sources doesn't mention anything about bathing.

If it is confirmed that he was allowed to bathe from 6th day onwards the claim for No water contact cannot be maintained for the entire 15 day study.

If on the other hand the original protocol of 2003 is maintained where there is no bathing and only gargling with 100 ml water is allowed which was collected after use, then the experiment was not compromised as far as access to water is concerned.

 

[stevenb]

If on the other hand the original protocol of 2003 is maintained where there is no bathing and only gargling with 100 ml water is allowed which was collected after use, then the experiment was not compromised as far as access to water is concerned.

Apparently, you believe a good magician could not figure out how to swap urine with gargled water. I happen to believe this is an achievable trick and so it does compromise the experiment.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Hm.

I am going to go without food or water, but apparently I can't live without bathing or gargling...


OK, now the experiment has been compromised.

I could hug you DaveC, but I am too macho for that. ;)

 

[rtved]

Apparently, you believe a good magician could not figure out how to swap urine with gargled water. I happen to believe this is an achievable trick and so it does compromise the experiment.

I admit that is has not occurred to me.Yes, it might be possible for a good magician if there are no Highspeed cameras to capture the entire gargling exercise.

 

[ideasrule]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

 

[DaveC426913]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

Ah but mistaken by whom? Who will be checking?

 

[IcedEcliptic]

This is a load of steaming turd... can we move on now? The need to prove is on the holy man, and that is already tainted. Game over.

 

[stevenb]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

Not clear water, but gargled up spit water with bubbles clouding the mixture. Would you be willing to try and tell the difference? There is no statement that the liquid was analyzed, only measured (I assume by weight and/or volume).

Let's ask another question. How could such an impossible claim ever be mistaken for a real possibility? Let's compare: urine mistaken for water, versus magic is scientific. Sure, maybe neither is actually the case here; but, which is more plausible.

The bottom line is that we are not there to see exactly what happened. So, why should we ignore a multitude of very possible, but mundane, explanations in favor of one highly improbable explanation? It's just not logical.

Even if we were there to analyze everything and were satisfied with what we saw, is it more logical to assume that magic exists or that we are fallible and were, in fact, fooled?

 

[zomgwtf]

Well I am highly skeptical of this hospital and it's findings. 15 days without food, no problem. 15 days without food or water... with absolutely NO changes... I want it independently verified.

While I do not believe this is something that a hospital should take any part in I do think this man should be sent to my house so I can padlock him in an empty warehouse room for a month. Or atleast he should be sent to a reputable lab so scientific studies can be done by scientists.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sounds like an obvious candidate for Randi's Challenge. Of course, that wouldn't be scientific evidence, but he could either pocket the money or give it to his favorite charity; assuming that he can really do it. At this point I easily expect fraud.

Is he willing to duplicate this feat for other academic institutions? That is the obvious test at this point.

 

[rtved]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

 

[Evo]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

People have been known to drink their own urine to survive.

Did they move the cameras from his bedroom to where he bathed? Did they measure the bathing water? How easy would it be to cup your hands filled with water and bring it up to your face to wash and drink it?

 

[stevenb]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

A magician's trick needs the perception that one step is a "cannot". An assistant is one method as you say, but it is not the only method. The color and the smell are the problems in your mind I assume. Magicians have dealt with far more difficult challanges than those.

 

[Galteeth]

Maybe he's a mutant.

 

[pallidin]

Magicians have dealt with far more difficult challanges than those.

Nice!

 

[pallidin]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

 

[WiFO215]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

Don't say that. It's not right.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Don't say that. It's not right.

I agree. Statements like that require supporting evidence.

 

[stevenb]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

We could say that scientific reports from anyplace and anyone are suspect. That's just part of the scientific method. Every report requires independent verification before it can be accepted.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

We could say that scientific reports from anyplace and anyone are suspect. That's just part of the scientific method. Every report requires independent verification before it can be accepted.

Yes, one must use knowledge of other sciences to make inference. We know of thermodynamics, an accepted theory, and this would contradict "no food and water". Remember that the man claims this is for 70 YEARS, and he is just proving this now. That is suspect, the region does not matter. India has questionable science, but is it more than the question you raise around Tuskegee, or MK ULTRA of the CIA? All countries spend money on blue sky research.

 

[JRDunassigned]

Without having read all of the posts - I'm sure that least 75% of them are genuinely good and will visit the remaining 7 pages a.s.a.p., it seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

 

[phyzmatix]

...it seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

That's a highly speculative point of view, but I can see potential in it. No way to know that for sure though.

 

[stevenb]

... seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

I think you make a good point.

Consider the benefit of being able to convince your enemy that your military can go years without food and water, even if it's not true. Propaganda is not something you keep secret.

I can't imagine any group of soldiers being that gullible, but people believe all kinds of things when religion is part of the mix.

 

[pallidin]

For an active, living human to continue functioning without any water intake for even a month is biologically impossible.

The following is from: http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/body+water+loss

Water makes up 60–70% of the human body, or about 40 l/70 pt, of which 25 l/53 pt are inside the cells and 15 l/26 pt outside (12 l/21 pt in tissue fluid, and 3 l/5 pt in blood plasma). A loss of 4 l/7 pt may cause hallucinations; a loss of 8–10 l/14–18 pt may cause death. About 1.5 l/2.6 pt a day are lost through breathing, sweating, and in faeces, and the additional amount lost in urine is the amount needed to keep the balance between input and output. In temperate climates, people cannot survive more than five or six days without water; this is reduced to two or three days in a hot environment.

 

[DaveC426913]

For an active, living human to continue functioning without any water intake for even a month is biologically impossible.

We know that. But simply put, (bona fide) empirical evidence trumps our preconceptions about what's impossible. Relying on things we already "know" simply doesn't cut it in the face of an experiment in-progress.

Again, I'd still put my money on fraud, but there is no closing this case until and unless the results of the experiment are scrutinized.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

We know that. But simply put, (bona fide) empirical evidence trumps our preconceptions about what's impossible. Relying on things we already "know" simply doesn't cut it in the face of an experiment in-progress.

Again, I'd still put my money on fraud, but there is no closing this case until and unless the results of the experiment are scrutinized.

The results are already tainted, so... we're back to square 1. In this, best of all possible worlds, we cannot always be logical positivists. There is strong evidence that this would require breaking major accepted physical laws, so we must accept that this is mystical, or not. If this is a test of mystical fortitude, but only has the TRAPPINGS of science, we do not have to take it seriously.

Show me the imaging of his miraculous anatomy, for the first step, then no water for bathing. We do not apply scientific method of proof to a carnival trick that is couched in organized fraud and absurdities.

 

[DaveC426913]

The results are already tainted, so...

You do not know that, though it's a good bet.

Show me the imaging of his miraculous anatomy...

No. Lack of evidence of a miraculous anatomy does not invalidate the results of an experiment.

 

[pallidin]

Again, I'd still put my money on fraud, but there is no closing this case until and unless the results of the experiment are scrutinized.

I'll close the case right now.

There is ZERO scientific evidence or even ANY precedence for this event.

It is a hoax. Plain and simple.

 

[devassocx]

I read the article...very humorous that anyone would take it seriously.

Back in the days of black&white tv there was some show here in So. CA. where one of
the guests was the leader of a sect called 'Breathetarians' (sp?). The claim was that
they also didn't need to eat. There was enough energy in the air to sustain one's body.

Then one of the followers ratted the leader out by claiming he saw him down a dish
of ice cream. The leader strongly denied this of course.

I guess the world is full of these kinds of folks.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

You do not know that, though it's a good bet.

He had access to water game over.

No. Lack of evidence of a miraculous anatomy does not invalidate the results of an experiment.[/QUOTE]

It does if you accept thermodynamics and don't believe in magic.