A power plant that uses more power than it generates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operational characteristics of pumped storage power plants, particularly focusing on the Yards Creek Pumped Storage Electric Generating Station. Participants explore the efficiency, purpose, and economic viability of such facilities, especially in relation to peak power demands and energy consumption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the Yards Creek facility as consuming more power than it generates, particularly noting that it requires 3 kilowatt-hours to pump water uphill to generate 2 kilowatt-hours of electricity.
  • Others propose that the facility is essential for meeting peak power demands and preventing brownouts, suggesting that it utilizes excess power generated during off-peak hours.
  • A participant mentions that similar systems exist, such as the one at Niagara Falls, which also utilizes reversible turbines for energy storage and generation.
  • Some contributions discuss the concept of Reactive Energy and its role in stabilizing electrical systems, with one participant questioning the terminology used in English.
  • There is a discussion about the efficiency of pumped storage systems, with one participant estimating around 5% efficiency based on their calculations, while another points out that the actual efficiency could be around 67% based on the Yards Creek data.
  • A later reply challenges the efficiency claims and compares pumped storage to hydrogen energy storage, suggesting limitations in pumped storage due to geographical constraints.
  • One participant asserts that all electrical generation facilities consume more power than they produce due to inherent energy conversion losses, drawing parallels with fusion energy and petrochemicals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the efficiency and purpose of pumped storage systems. There is no consensus on the exact efficiency figures or the broader implications of energy consumption in power generation.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions regarding energy efficiency calculations and the definitions of Reactive Energy, indicating potential misunderstandings or differing terminologies across regions.

  • #31
They sure are available, not in the power density i previously listed (from MIT), but they sure ARE available..
http://www.maxwell.com/pdf/uc/datasheets/BMOD2600-16.pdf
and you are correct ultracapacitors at this time , make an excellent complement with batteries..
Because they can absorb the energy from regenerative braking , very quickly..Much more quickly than a battery can..
 

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