A question about condensing turbines

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operation of condensing turbines, specifically whether the latent heat of steam that condenses within these turbines can be converted into power. Participants explore the implications of this conversion on the efficiency and power output of condensing turbines compared to back pressure turbines, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of turbine operation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that condensing turbines can convert the latent heat of the condensed steam into usable power, suggesting this allows for greater power production compared to back pressure turbines under the same temperature and pressure conditions.
  • Others clarify that while some condensation occurs in the turbine, the majority of latent heat is lost in the condenser, indicating that the turbine itself does not perform all the condensation.
  • A participant notes that energy conservation principles apply, and that a balance must be maintained between the energy of the incoming and outgoing flows, including considerations for moisture removal and steam seals.
  • There is mention of the potential for low pressure turbine blades to have designs that mitigate moisture-related issues, which could impact efficiency.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which condensing turbines can utilize latent heat for power generation. While some agree that they can extract latent heat effectively, others emphasize the limitations and clarify the role of the condenser in the overall process. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise contributions of the turbine versus the condenser.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential for misunderstanding due to terminology, particularly the distinction between "condensing turbines" and "back pressure turbines." There is also an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in accurately accounting for all energy flows and losses in a turbine system.

pranj5
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I want to know that whether in case of condensing turbines, the Latent heat of the steam part that will be condensed will be converted into power or not. In that case, condensing turbines can produce more power with the same temperature and pressure difference.
 
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pranj5 said:
I want to know that whether in case of condensing turbines, the Latent heat of the steam part that will be condensed will be converted into power or not.
Yes.
 
I really like the short answer of Russ. Yes is to the point.
It would be quite rare that one found a condensing turbine in any other configuration than a compound reduction power plant. In this sort of train there is a higher power turbine (or more than one) that mostly utilizes the heat energy available. As the heat is reduced to close to transitional phase it passes the last turbine which has a condenser following. Remember that that there is also a large volume change accompanying the state transition between vapor and liquid. This creates a low pressure region causing the "low pressure turbine" to operate at a usable differential. In this way there is a very large conversion of energy.
 
We need some clarification to avoid misleading the OP @pranj5 . @russ_watters answer is correct to the extent that gas is condensed in the turbine. But typically, steam exits the turbine saturated with maybe 10-15% moisture. The lion's share of the condensing happens in the condenser, and that latent heat is lost

In a typical steam power plant using very rough numbers, 1/3 of the energy is extracted by the turbine and 2/3 of the energy is lost in the condenser.

The problem is the very misleading, but standard, terminology "condensing turbine" as opposed to "back pressure turbine." The words make is sound like it is the turbine that does the condensing, not the condenser. http://www.turbinesinfo.com/types-of-steam-turbines/
 
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It can be easily understood that turbines convert a part of the gross enthalpy of steam. What I specifically want to know is that whether "condensing turbines" can convert a part of the Latent Heat of the input steam into power or not. As a part of the steam is condensed inside the turbine, that means they release the LHV. If that's not converted into power, where can it go?
Seems that all here agree to the fact that condensing turbines can convert the LHV of the condensed steam into usable work. By this standard, they can produce more power in comparison to back pressure turbines with the same temperature difference, right?
 
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pranj5 said:
It can be easily understood that turbines convert a part of the gross enthalpy of steam. What I specifically want to know is that whether "condensing turbines" can convert a part of the Latent Heat of the input steam into power or not. As a part of the steam is condensed inside the turbine, that means they release the LHV. If that's not converted into power, where can it go?
Seems that all here agree to the fact that condensing turbines can convert the LHV of the condensed steam into usable work. By this standard, they can produce more power in comparison to back pressure turbines with the same temperature difference, right?

Yes. You were not mislead. You got it right.

Energy is conserved, so if you do a balance between the energy of the flows coming in and the energy of the flows coming out that is the energy extracted by the turbine. But to be precise, you must account for all the extraction flows, steam seals, and moisture removed from the steam path and drained away without going all the way through the turbine. On a large steam turbine, there are hundreds of "out flows" to account for.

I don't know how precise you need to be.

Sometimes low pressure turbine blades have grooves specifically to extract moisture, because water droplets are bad aerodynamically. They cause erosion and loss of efficiency.
 
I just want to be assured that condensation turbines can produce more power with same temperature difference as they can extract the LHV of portion of input steam that has been condensed. What you are saying can be easily calculated if the consider the mass of steam input and output to be the same. Drainage of droplets have to be added to the output in that case to keep the input and output mass to be the same.
 

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