A question about diesel engines

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the characteristics of diesel engines compared to Otto cycle engines, specifically focusing on torque behavior and the combustion process. Participants explore the nature of torque output in diesel engines and the differences in combustion timing and efficiency between the two engine types.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that diesel engines exhibit a "steady torque" characteristic, suggesting that torque does not change significantly with revolutions, although this claim is questioned by others.
  • One participant notes that while the torque curve of a diesel engine is flatter compared to petrol engines, it is not constant, indicating variability in torque output.
  • Another participant explains that both diesel and Otto cycles produce relatively flat torque curves over certain RPM ranges, with diesel engines potentially having flatter curves due to design factors such as lower maximum RPM and the use of supercharging or turbocharging.
  • A participant describes the fundamental differences in the combustion processes of diesel and Otto cycle engines, highlighting how the timing of fuel injection and combustion affects engine efficiency and torque delivery.
  • It is mentioned that the Diesel cycle allows for higher compression ratios and better thermodynamic efficiency compared to the Otto cycle, which may have economic and environmental implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of torque in diesel engines, with some asserting a steady torque characteristic while others argue against it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which diesel engines maintain constant torque across RPMs.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various aspects of engine design and performance, but there are no definitive conclusions about the torque characteristics of diesel engines or the implications of the differences between the two engine cycles.

larsa
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I have read ( excuse me but i don't remember the reference) that a diesel engine, contrary to an engine that works on the otto cycle, is a " steady torque" engine meaning that torque doesn't change with revolutions.

Could someone explain me the reason? ( in case that this statement is true ).
Thank you
 
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I drive a diesel powered car. The engine torque certainly isn't constant. However the torque vs rpm curve is certainly flatter than petrol/gas powered cars I have had in the past. I'm not sure why.
 
larsa said:
I have read ( excuse me but i don't remember the reference) that a diesel engine, contrary to an engine that works on the otto cycle, is a " steady torque" engine meaning that torque doesn't change with revolutions.

Could someone explain me the reason? ( in case that this statement is true ).
Thank you
To some degree, both the diesel and the otto cycles will produce torque curves which are relatively "flat" over a particular range of RPM. The diesel torque curve is probably flatter than an otto cycle's because most diesel engines are not designed to rev as high, and therefore do not suffer from increasing losses in induction efficiency as RPMs increase, which leads to a reduction in torque output. Also, many diesels are supercharged or turbocharged to provide increased power output.


6.7-powerstroke-hp-torque.jpg


Above is a set of power and torque curves for a common automotive diesel engine. Not all such diesel engines exhibit the awesomely flat torque curve between 1600 and 2800 RPM, but many do.

The curves below show how an otto cycle compares to a diesel cycle:


Peak-vs-Flat-Curve-Torque-.jpg

 
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SteamKing said:
To some degree, both the diesel and the otto cycles will produce torque curves which are relatively "flat" over a particular range of RPM. The diesel torque curve is probably flatter than an otto cycle's because most diesel engines are not designed to rev as high, and therefore do not suffer from increasing losses in induction efficiency as RPMs increase, which leads to a reduction in torque output. Also, many diesels are supercharged or turbocharged to provide increased power output.


6.7-powerstroke-hp-torque.jpg


Above is a set of power and torque curves for a common automotive diesel engine. Not all such diesel engines exhibit the awesomely flat torque curve between 1600 and 2800 RPM, but many do.

The curves below show how an otto cycle compares to a diesel cycle:


Peak-vs-Flat-Curve-Torque-.jpg

Thank you for your answer
 
There are fundamental differences between Diesel and Otto cycle engines in the times of fuel combustion and the expansion stroke.

An ideal Otto cycle engine compresses a stoichiometric mix of fuel and air. Pre-ignition must be avoided before the spark ignites and burns all in an instant explosion at top dead centre. Expansion of combustion products then takes place over the power stroke.

An ideal Diesel cycle engine has excess hot compressed air at the end of the compression stroke. Only then is fuel injected as a mist, to burn as it is injected over a considerable period of the power stroke. This maintains pressure on the piston during the expansion stroke.

The advantage of the Diesel cycle over the Otto cycle is that fuel and air are not compressed together in the diesel until the burn, so a higher compression ratio and cheaper fuel is possible with the Diesel. By avoiding the possibility of pre-ignition, doubling the compression ratio is possible with the Diesel which raises the thermodynamic efficiency to 150% of the Otto cycle 100%. That has significant economic and environmental implications.

Over the last 100 years, better fuel injection systems and turbochargers have made Diesel engine performance very similar to Otto cycle engines, while maintaining the Diesel cycle efficiency advantage.
 

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