A question about energetic protons (cosmic rays)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature and effects of high-energy cosmic ray protons, particularly those with energies around 1020 eV, and their potential impact on human health and the environment. Participants explore the implications of cosmic rays on the atmosphere, the generation of secondary particles like muons, and the relevance of cosmic radiation in the context of space travel and everyday life.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that cosmic ray collisions occur frequently but are generally too infrequent to have quantifiable physiological consequences.
  • It is mentioned that high-energy cosmic rays primarily interact with the atmosphere, producing showers of secondary particles, particularly muons, which can affect matter on the ground.
  • One participant describes muons as significant contributors to random mutations, including potential cancer risks, but emphasizes that they are a constant presence and not typically a cause for concern.
  • There is a discussion about the energy of cosmic rays being comparable to everyday objects, but the momentum of these particles is noted to be different due to relativistic effects.
  • Some participants express curiosity about the effects of cosmic rays on the human body, particularly in the context of space missions where radiation exposure is a concern.
  • Questions are raised regarding the safety of living at lower altitudes in relation to cosmic ray exposure, with some arguing that there is no meaningful difference in exposure levels at typical living altitudes.
  • Participants discuss the penetrating nature of muons, noting that they can pass through various materials, including concrete, due to their mass and energy characteristics.
  • There are mentions of medical supplements purported to repair radical damage, with caution advised about their efficacy and regulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of curiosity and caution regarding the effects of cosmic rays and their secondary products. While some agree on the general nature of cosmic rays and their interactions, there is no consensus on the implications for human health or the effectiveness of supplements to mitigate potential damage.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of cosmic ray interactions and the varying effects of different energy levels. There are unresolved questions about the long-term impacts of low-level radiation exposure and the potential risks associated with cosmic rays in specific environments, such as space.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying astrophysics, radiation biology, space exploration, and health sciences, as well as those curious about the effects of cosmic radiation on human health and the environment.

fluidistic
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I've read that some protons in the Universe can have an energy of about [tex]10^{20}eV[/tex], or in English, about a well-hit tennis ball. (The cosmic rays).
Is it possible for these rays to reach our brain? Or more precisely, what would happen if one gets hit by such an energetic particle?
P.S.: I didn't know in which section to post this question. Sorry if I did it wrongly.
 
Space news on Phys.org
Cosmic ray collisions occur every day with everyone . . . no news there. They are too few to have quantifiable physiological consequencesg
 
fluidistic said:
I've read that some protons in the Universe can have an energy of about [tex]10^{20}eV[/tex], or in English, about a well-hit tennis ball. (The cosmic rays).
Is it possible for these rays to reach our brain? Or more precisely, what would happen if one gets hit by such an energetic particle?
P.S.: I didn't know in which section to post this question. Sorry if I did it wrongly.
These high energy rays don't actually get very far through the atmosphere. They tend to impact and obliterate the nucleus of some atom in the upper atmosphere. What hits the ground is a massive shower of particles (it's by measuring these showers that we are able to detect these particles and measure their energies).

The products of these collisions that have the most effect upon matter on the ground are muons. Muons are like electrons but with around 200 times the mass or so (meaning they're around 1/10th the mass of a proton). When they strike normal matter, then, they can knock out electrons, and when they decay, those decays can cause more electrons to be knocked away from their atoms. These cosmic ray muons are a significant source of random mutation that we have to deal with all the time and can cause things like cancer. They're not really anything to be worried about, per se, because they're ever-present and we normally don't notice their effects. And we can't realistically do anything about them anyway.

And this is also why, by the way, we don't worry quite so much about small amounts of radiation exposure: we're exposed to radiation all our lives, after all, and so it's not really that big of a deal unless this exposure is increased significantly more than the background level.
 
fluidistic said:
I've read that some protons in the Universe can have an energy of about [tex]10^{20}eV[/tex], or in English, about a well-hit tennis ball. (The cosmic rays).
Is it possible for these rays to reach our brain? Or more precisely, what would happen if one gets hit by such an energetic particle?
P.S.: I didn't know in which section to post this question. Sorry if I did it wrongly.

Fluidistic, I've read the same. Some cosmic ray protons have energies on the order of 10 joules. That is a lot. Like dropping a 1 kilogram book one meter, kerblam onto the table top.

These energetic particles spend their energy in the atmosphere. They cause showers of secondary and tertiary particles.

I hope you get a thorough answer, about the effects on the body. It's interesting. It is mainly interesting because of constraints on manned space missions. People have to be shielded from the radiation in space.

I can't give you a very satisfactory answer. Maybe you can find something in Wikipedia. One unintuitive thing is that the momentum of one of these protons is not so big.
The kinetic energy might be like a dropped book or a hit tennisball.
but the momentum wouldn't be like those things.

I'm heading off to bed. I'll check in tomorrow and see if someone (you or other) has found out more about the effects on the body.
You should probably expand the question and include the effect of less energetic more common cosmic rays. I assume those with a joule or more energy are comparatively rare.
 
marcus said:
The kinetic energy might be like a dropped book or a hit tennisball.
but the momentum wouldn't be like those things.
Huh? As these are highly relativistic particles (kinetic energy much greater than their rest mass energy), their momentum and energy are essentially equal (up to a unit conversion factor given by the speed of light).
 
Thanks all, that was very interesting. I also read on wikipedia that the cosmic ray can damage computers.
 
Possibly is it safer living low altitude regions ?
 
v2kkim said:
Possibly is it safer living low altitude regions ?
I don't think it makes any meaningful difference. The muons generated by these cosmic rays tend to be very penetrating. Certainly there's no meaningful difference in the range where people usually live.
 
Can muons penetrate even concrete ? How come so penetrating ?
 
  • #10
v2kkim said:
Can muons penetrate even concrete ? How come so penetrating ?
Oh, certainly. They go quite far through basically any sort of matter. This is why neutrino detectors have to be put so far underground: if they aren't buried under hundreds of meters of rock, the muon signal completely swamps any neutrino signal.

The reason they are so penetrating is basically that they tend to be in sort of an in-between regime in energy where they don't react strongly with atomic nuclei, and they also have enough mass that it takes a long time for interactions with electrons to slow them down much (muons are about 200 times as massive as electrons, but only about 1/10th the mass of protons/neutrons).
 
  • #11
I think some medical suppliments are advertised to repair radical damage in our body. Maybe I have to take good ones.
 
  • #12
v2kkim said:
I think some medical suppliments are advertised to repair radical damage in our body. Maybe I have to take good ones.
I would stay away from those if I were you. The food supplement industry in the US is almost completely unregulated, and so there's a bunch of dangerous **** out there, and there's almost no demonstration of any positive effect whatsoever.

Besides, this really is nothing to be concerned about. Animals on Earth have lived with this continual low-level bombardment of cosmic radiation for hundreds of millions of years. We've evolved to compensate, and there may even be negative effects from shielding ourselves from it.
 

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