A question on Gravity Waves and Gravity Radiation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around gravitational waves and gravitational radiation, particularly in the context of binary systems and their energy loss over time as predicted by relativity. Participants explore the implications of these predictions, the feasibility of detecting gravitational radiation on Earth, and alternative explanations for observed energy loss.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that relativity predicts energy loss in binary systems due to gravitational radiation, referencing historical observations by Taylor and collaborators.
  • A participant proposes that the frequency of gravitational radiation is related to the frequency of the binary orbit, suggesting it would be twice the rotational frequency.
  • Another participant provides a formula for estimating the power of gravitational radiation emitted by a binary system, calculating a specific value based on given parameters.
  • Concerns are raised about the ability of current gravitational wave detectors to detect such low levels of radiation, considering the sensitivity and noise in the environment.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of gravitational waves, noting the lack of successful detection over many years and suggesting that sensitivity issues may be a factor.
  • There is a question about whether other mechanisms could explain the observed loss of orbital energy, with one participant suggesting that any alternative explanation would need to coincidentally match the predictions of general relativity closely.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the predictions made by relativity regarding energy loss in binary systems, but there is uncertainty about the detection of gravitational waves and the potential for alternative explanations for energy loss. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness of current detection methods and the existence of gravitational waves.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the sensitivity of gravitational wave detectors and the potential influence of environmental noise on detection capabilities. The discussion also reflects varying levels of confidence in the existence of gravitational waves and the interpretations of energy loss in binary systems.

Tanelorn
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Relativity predicts that the binary system will lose energy with time as orbital energy is converted to gravitational radiation. In 1983, Taylor and collaborators reported that there was a systematic shift in the observed time of periastron relative to that expected if the orbital separation remained constant. In the diagram shown here, data taken in the first decade after the discovery showed a decrease in the orbital period as reported by Taylor and his colleagues of about 76 millionths of a second per year. By 1982, the pulsar was arriving at its periastron more than a second earlier than would have been expected if the orbit had remained constant since 1974.


http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/psr1913.htm


Does Relativity estimate or predict the frequency of the gravitational radiation?
Can we also estimate the amount of gravitational radiation being emitted and thus the amount present at a gravity wave detector here on earth?
Are there any other causes which might explain the loss of orbital energy?
 
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Tanelorn said:
Relativity predicts that the binary system will lose energy with time as orbital energy is converted to gravitational radiation. In 1983, Taylor and collaborators reported that there was a systematic shift in the observed time of periastron relative to that expected if the orbital separation remained constant. In the diagram shown here, data taken in the first decade after the discovery showed a decrease in the orbital period as reported by Taylor and his colleagues of about 76 millionths of a second per year. By 1982, the pulsar was arriving at its periastron more than a second earlier than would have been expected if the orbit had remained constant since 1974.


http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/psr1913.htmDoes Relativity estimate or predict the frequency of the gravitational radiation?
The frequency would be twice the frequency of the rotational period.
Can we also estimate the amount of gravitational radiation being emitted and thus the amount present at a gravity wave detector here on earth?
The power could be found by:

P =\frac{32}{5}\frac{G^4(M_1M_2)^2(M_1+M_2)}{c^2 r^5}

Which works out to about 3.9e22 Joules/sec.

It is 21,000 ly away, so we would get something like 3.14e-19 Joules/sec per square meter. here on Earth.
Are there any other causes which might explain the loss of orbital energy?

I'm not gong to say that it is impossible, but the loss seen fits what is predicted by GR, so it would have to be a pretty large coincidence for another mechanism to match that exact energy loss.
 
Thanks Janus for an excellent reply.

The frequency of the gravitational radiation then is just related to the frequency at which the gravitation field is changing due to the period of the binary orbit. I expected this, but didnt want to assume anything. So gravity waves are nothing more than variation with time of the static gravitational field?

I understand that gravity wave detectors have been built deep underground to prove gravity waves exist. Would we expect to be able to detect this level of gravitational radiation here on Earth with the sensitivity of our detectors and with the level of noise and interference here and elsewhere?
 
So far I don't think they have had any luck with gravity waves. Some have been searching for up to 20 years or more? Hopefully its about sensitivity and not a lack of the thing they are looking for. That would mess things up a little...
 

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