Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

A Space Ship with 3 main power sources

  1. Oct 12, 2014 #1
    I'm building a spaceship and making a movie where a long spaceship is encased in laser shielding that doubles as laser propulsion. Plutonium is 1 power source ideally between the sun and target star. The movie is titled The Finish Line. Clear pipes around the ship are filled with water and nanoparticles that boil water at room temperature in light. It would also provide light to the spaceship and green houses...
    http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...am-using-only-sunlight-just-add-nanoparticles

    I want a 3rd power source. Radiation from the sun would serve as a third power source. “Materials that directly convert radiation into electricity could produce a new era of spacecraft... The materials they are testing would extract up to 20 times more power from radioactive decay than thermoelectric materials, they calculate.” http://www.newscientist.com/article...n-directly-into-electricity.html#.VDl6WuktD6c

    Here is the hard part. Would radiation go through the laser shielding if the ship was in orbit 'near' the sun? I'm willing to pay a technical editor.

    [Mentor edited to remove personal identifying information]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 23, 2014 #2
    Well, there isn't anything like laser shielding in the real world, so it's hard to say if radiation will pass through it. If laser shielding is literally light that surrounds the spaceship, then it won't be effective as a shield, since light doesn't really block anything. If you shine a flashlight beam through another beam, they don't block each other.
     
  4. Nov 24, 2014 #3

    DHF

    User Avatar

    Instead of plutonium, you might want to go with Hydrogen fusion, it gives a lot more bang for your buck then plutonium fission. converting solar radiation into electricity is a reality today, though with our current level of technology we typically get about 12% efficiency from solar panels. Your ship could be using a futuristic version that gets much higher efficiency so that when your ship is near a star, perhaps it can convert 90% of the light it absorbs into power.

    As for a 3rd power source, rather then having a completely different system, why not just use a backup Fusion generator? having multiple power sources that all use different fuel wouldn't be very effective because all that extra fuel would just be adding dead weight to the ship. Though in reality Having the fusion reactor as the main power and using solar power as the backup should be sufficient. In space travel, everything comes down to mass, the more mass your ship has, the more power it takes to move it so typically you want your ship to have as little unnecessary mass as possible.

    As for shields, I would just refer to them as shields. as it stands we have no current working models for how energy shields work so trying to explain them in any detail or giving them a working theory opens you up to people nitpicking your technical details. If you just say " the ship has shields" you leave it up to audience to decide how they work.
     
  5. Nov 24, 2014 #4
    Since you are speculating why not a electrically charged pair of black holes that spin around each other generating a near earth gravitional field for the space ship and a protective magnetic shield that deflects ionizing radiation. Since the micro black holes are charged then a charge plate keeps them centered and the event horizon away from the ship. This is placed in the front so any asteroid collisions are sucked into the black pair and keeps rest of ship safe.

    Since the black holes are rotating so the gravitional field pulsates. This gravitational fluctuation is used to generate electricity which keeps the charge plates holding the black holes in stable position. The rest of the electrical energy is used to power the ship.

    And oh yes since the black holes are spinning they absorb some matter and some matter goes thru the center but accelerated and thrust out due to the huge gravitational field. This then provides thrust for the spaceship.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  6. Nov 24, 2014 #5

    DHF

    User Avatar

    the problem with exotic methods such as that is that it would probably take more energy to generate and contain said black holes then you would gain from them. wouldn't the ship need to produce a force grater then the black holes themselves in order to prevent being shredded and sucked into said anomalies?
     
  7. Nov 24, 2014 #6
    Not really the charges needed to keep the black hole in place would be mostly static. The blackhole would get energy from capturing forward particles. Energy would be extracted by gravitational expulsion of part of the fron that was captured.

    The blackhole system could be configured in such a way that it becomes black hole due to relativistic mass increase from its rotational speed. Since it is dual black holes then you could selectivly target incoming matter to either increase the rotation or decrease the rotation. . So it is possible that the two bodies are not black holes individually but since they are spinning around each other their rotational speed is near c and causes the the two sphere system as an entity to become a black hole.

    It is concievable that the system is manipulated to just stay underneath a black hole mass for easier control.
     
  8. Nov 25, 2014 #7
    Thank you for the info I'm not a physicist. High power lasers double as shields and propulsion. Fusion? IS there a net energy gain from fusion using current technology? (From what I read on wiki fusion was years away (if possible) for creating net energy even as simple as heating water. For fusion to occur doesn't it require a lot of fuel and pressure(Jupiter didn't fuse)(magnetic containment)? Energy is used for containment. The less net energy gain the more fuel it would need to carry.

    I thought of a better idea, pressure as energy storage. If we can get usable energy storage from pressure then we can put fuel cells in orbit around the sun. Once the fuel cell stored enough energy it can go to Earth for energy and energy for space travel and put on a ship for travel to earth like planets. For ease there are 586 earth like stars within 100 light years. 1 in 5 stars like ours have an earth like planet. Here is a link to the article about pressure having energy storage next to nuclear. It is in Popular Science too though I don't have the link here. http://www.gizmag.com/high-pressure-energy-storage-material/15614/

    Again does current fusion have a net energy gain?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  9. Nov 25, 2014 #8
    High power lasers would shield from small particles not radiation. High power lasers can cut through metal. Lasers moving faster than light would have more cutting power like a bullet that moves faster. Radiation can be turned into usage energy using nano particles. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13545-nanomaterial-turns-radiation-directly-into-electricity.html

    When the fuel cell IS moving a lot faster than light it might start blocking light and radiation. The fuel cell would move to earth. Matter IS made of light energy that is 1 reason there IS no light speed barrier. There IS no such thing as 'infinite' mass. A ship like this can test if there IS 'infinite' mass.

    Even if it couldn't go light speed there IS 586 earth like stars within 100 light years. 1 in 5 have an earth like planet. How about a summary of how many stars like ours have an earth like planet within 25 to 50 light years.

    The hard part would be if the fuel cells move near or past light speed 'near' earth would be to attach the space ship segments to the fuel cells. Where there are points of contact the space ship segments might be able to store energy in pressure. Electromagnets can be used. The longer the space ship the more motion energy would brake the fuel cells and move the massive space ship. If not it would need to carry extra fuel to bring the ship near or past light speed. If it has a lot of energy storage then it doesn't need to travel fast near the sun or earth to the space ship segments. It IS 1 of the MOVIES I wrote and let's pray the space ship works in The Finish Line.

    Elena technical editor needed writersiq@hotmail.com It takes many people to make movies. I will pay the technical editor many times what the competition pays particularly if you get financing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  10. Nov 25, 2014 #9
    Elena technical editor needed writersiq@hotmail.com It takes many people to make movies. I will pay the technical editor many times what the competition pays particularly finance the movie The Finish Line.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  11. Nov 25, 2014 #10
    Technically speaking yes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

    ;)

    The hard part, is doing it in slower and more controlled manner. This part has not been worked out yet in way that provides energy gain, but it seems possible.
     
  12. Nov 25, 2014 #11
  13. Nov 25, 2014 #12
    Fusion might work in 25 50 or 100 years. “destructive energy comes from uranium fission rather than fusion.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

    More movies are better to some extent. Both are theoretical. Many countries have tried fusion for 50 years. At least 3 energy sources should be tried. It takes a lot of energy to contain fusion. Energy from pressure is more probable. Matter needs matter for energy creation. If these 3 work they will create a lot more energy than it takes to get the energy.

    It takes energy to contain the fusion reaction and requires fuel for fusion. Space ships can have more than 1 energy source for thrust. If we can get a lot of energy from pressure near nuclear it would create a lot of more energy for hydrogen creation on earth laser shielding and thrust. A fast moving space ship requires shielding. In the interim The Finish Line is a movie about space travel to another earth like planet.
     
  14. Nov 25, 2014 #13
    Look at freeman dysons work on a fusion powered ship to alpha centauri that would go at .03c with 1g thrust for 10 days.. This was a do able project using 1958 tech. It is eminently do able now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

    Instead of building a 100,000 ton spaceship in space as proposed by project orion. I propose we capture an asteroid Build a habitation area inside and then use Freeman dyson scheme on nuclear propulsion in the back. An asteroid can also better absorb any particle that it might hit at .03C and or have some sort of disposable sheild/ deflector in the front.
     
  15. Nov 25, 2014 #14
    At 0.1c, Orion thermonuclear starships would require a flight time of at least 44 years to reach Alpha Centauri, not counting time needed to reach that speed (about 36 days at constant acceleration of 1g or 9.8 m/s2). At 0.1c, an Orion starship would require 100 years to travel 10 light years. The astronomer Carl Sagan suggested that this would be an excellent use for current stockpiles of nuclear weapons.[17]
     
  16. Nov 26, 2014 #15
    There can be more than 1 movie about space travel. How would the space ship slow down? Using pressure to store energy from the sun the energy is a net energy gain to make hydrogen and for laser shielding and propulsion. Energy can be sent to Mars. A space ship moving near or past the speed of light would require shielding. Vastly superior to a solar sail. Pressure is safer than nuclear. It would require taking energy from earth. Nuclear fusion bombs require plutonium. Unused nuclear weapons are used to produce electricity.
     
  17. Nov 26, 2014 #16
    For interstellar travel the amount of energy needed is only available from nuclear power
     
  18. Dec 2, 2014 #17
    If Fusion or the NASA quantum engine were easy to do alien civilization would probably have come to earth millions of years ago. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try many ways to go to earth like planets. There are 586 stars like ours within 100 light years. 1 in 5 has an earth like planet. We are in the Galactic Suburbs (circular bands of stars) so aliens are less likely to be able to come here. Still there are 100 earth like planets within 100 light years. We might be in a ~dry spot and the nearest earth like planet might be 15 or 30 light years away. Like I said there can be more than 1 movie about space travel.

    Fuel cells orbit the sun 'slowly' using light energy to heat water like in a power plant and cools on the dark side of the fuel cell. (The Gaia mission's sun shade has ice on the dark side. A colony on Mercury could run clear pipes in sun light for heat and energy to drill and mine on Mercury if there is anything of value. To put dirt in front of Venus to cool Venus? It could be done over thousands or millions years. In the sun light on Mercury it is 800 degrees Fahrenheit. In the shadows ~200 below. There is no atmosphere to hold the heat...)

    Fuel cells could be brought to Earth for energy and to make hydrogen for space travel or to power space ships for travel to an earth like planet within 50 light years of earth. It is better to get energy from space than take energy from earth. Even if pressure for energy storage is twice the mass of uranium it is better to bring the energy to earth and for space travel from space. It is a movie and hopefully it will work.

    Turning radiation into usable energy hasn't really been tried since it was a lot easier to heat water. It should be done for shielding and as a second energy source. Read these articles on how Alex and Maria's spaceship might work.

    http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...am-using-only-sunlight-just-add-nanoparticles

    “Materials that directly convert radiation into electricity could produce a new era of spacecraft... The materials they are testing would extract up to 20 times more power from radioactive decay than thermoelectric materials, they calculate.”
    http://www.newscientist.com/article...n-directly-into-electricity.html#.VDl6WuktD6c [Broken]

    Pressure as energy storage “the most condensed form of energy storage outside of nuclear energy,” Even if it many times the mass of plutonium we should use an energy source from space to bring to earth and for space travel. Storage of solar power? It is a lot more efficient than rocket fuel, safe, clean and could provide nearly an unlimited source of energy for earth and space travel. Uranium was formed in the pressure of stars, fusion and occurs in uranium ore???

    http://www.gizmag.com/high-pressure-energy-storage-material/15614/
    http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-07/using-extreme-pressure-researchers-create-novel-material-stores-massive-amounts-energy
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100704162218.htm

    I wrote The Finish Line and need a technical editor. I pay 3 times what the competition does. Lasers are used to shield the space ships and double for propulsion in The Finish Line.

    It is a movie and hopefully it will work.


    <<Moderator note: Removed personal information>>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  19. Dec 8, 2014 #18
    In fewer words. Alex's space ship has more than 1 energy source. Fuel cells turn water or a liquid is heated and turned into steam like in a power plant. Pressure is used for energy storage on the fuel cells. It is turned back into liquid on the dark side on the fuel cell. Mercury in the shade it is 200 below. In sun light it is 800 Fahrenheit. There is no atmosphere to hold the heat. On the Gaia mission ice formed on the dark side of the sun shade. A future mission like Gaia probably needs a heater on the dark side of the sun shade.

    Nano particles boil water in sunlight at room temperature.

    Radiation near the sun can be used for energy using nano particles. It was easier to heat water using thermonuclear that is why this wasn't been developed much. Energy is stored using pressure. Fuel cells go around the sun slowly and are sent back to earth for energy, energy for space travel and for energy to move Alex's space ship to a star with an earth like planet using laser propulsion that doubles as shielding. It is a movie and hopefully Alex's space ship will work. There can be more than 1 movie about space travel. I need a technical editor and want to get The Finish Line done. I will pay many times what the competition does.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28spacecraft [Broken]) About ice forming on the dark side of the sun shade.
    http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...am-using-only-sunlight-just-add-nanoparticles [Broken]
    http://www.gizmag.com/high-pressure-energy-storage-material/15614/
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13545-nanomaterial-turns-radiation-directly-into-electricity.html
    The fuel cell and space ship turn radiation around the sun into usable energy to go to the target star.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Similar Discussions: A Space Ship with 3 main power sources
  1. Future energy sources (Replies: 14)

  2. Telescope Power (Replies: 23)

  3. Space Chess (Replies: 18)

Loading...