A Student's Guide to Vectors and Tensors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the exploration of resources for learning about tensors, particularly in the context of general relativity (GR). Participants share their experiences with various textbooks and express their needs for different levels of rigor in tensor analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the clarity and effectiveness of a specific book on tensors, seeking feedback from others who may have used it.
  • Another participant asks about the level of rigor needed for tensor analysis, suggesting that the requirements may differ between mathematics and physics students.
  • A participant mentions their background in physics and their upcoming course in GR, expressing concerns about their understanding of tensors.
  • Some participants suggest that the book referenced may not be suitable for GR, arguing that standard GR texts provide adequate introductions to tensors.
  • One participant praises Schutz's textbook for its modern approach to tensors, indicating it is appropriate for undergraduates and suggesting it as a better alternative.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of using multiple textbooks to grasp both the mathematical and physical concepts of GR, recommending additional resources for problem-solving practice.
  • A participant defends Boas's textbook, asserting that its coverage is suitable for its intended audience.
  • One participant recommends Schutz's other book on geometrical methods as a valuable resource.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the suitability of the book initially referenced for learning tensors in the context of GR. Participants express differing opinions on the effectiveness of various textbooks, with some advocating for Schutz's work while others defend Boas's approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with tensor analysis and GR, indicating that their recommendations may depend on individual learning needs and backgrounds. The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the adequacy of different texts for understanding both the mathematical and physical aspects of GR.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying general relativity or those seeking resources to better understand tensors in a physics context. It may also benefit educators looking for textbook recommendations for their courses.

Student100
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Has anyone actually gone through this book? I was looking for something that explained tensors a bit clearer and came to this book. It has pretty good reviews, but I was wondering if anyone here has anything to add or suggestions.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521171903/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
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Just out of curiosity, how rigorous an introduction to tensor analysis do you want/need? Do you need it at the level of a mathematics student or at that of physics student etc.? Any particular subject you're studying or attempting to study that requires you to learn tensor analysis beforehand?
 
Physics level WBN, doing GR next quarter. I've read Boas chapter on tensors, and aside from touching on them in E&M2, I've not really dealt with them. Maybe I'm overthinking how much I need to know about tensors at this point, but I feel like I have quite a few holes in my understanding. :p

Course description.
Topics covered in the first quarter include special relativity, differential geometry, the equivalence principle, the Einstein field equations, and experimental and observational tests of gravitation theories.
 
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Student100 said:
Physics level WBN, doing GR next quarter.

Haha now we're talking :smile:

Student100 said:
I've read Boas chapter on tensors, and aside from touching on them in E&M2, I've not really dealt with them. Maybe I'm overthinking how much I need to know about tensors at this point, but I feel like I have quite a few holes in my understanding. :p

It's quite possible that you are overthinking it; regardless, practice makes perfect so you can't lose by doing more :biggrin:

However looking through the text you linked I would not recommend it for the purposes of GR. There are a couple of reasons for this:

For one that book (as well as Boas) are very low brow when it comes to tensors.

Second, and more importantly, most standard GR texts do a superb job of introducing tensors at the appropriate level and with the appropriate style for GR so you would be spending extra money for less gain by getting a separate book just for tensors.

Do you happen to know what GR text you will be using next semester?
 
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WannabeNewton said:
Do you happen to know what GR text you will be using next semester?

Looks like Bernard Shutzs a first course into general relativity , and the professors notes.
 
Student100 said:
Looks like Bernard Shutz, and the professors notes.

Schutz has a brilliant, modern coordinate-free exposition of tensors at a level appropriate for physics undergrads (it was my first textbook on GR and I loved it to death); you won't need to waste your money on the book you referenced in the OP. If you want more rigorous treatments of tensors in the context of GR then I'll be happy to give references.
 
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WannabeNewton said:
Schutz has a brilliant, modern coordinate-free exposition of tensors at a level appropriate for physics undergrads (it was my first textbook on GR and I loved it to death); you won't need to waste your money on the book you referenced in the OP. If you want more rigorous treatments of tensors in the context of GR then I'll be happy to give references.

Appreciate it WBN! I'll keep you in mind as I go through the course. ;)
 
You probably already know this but GR is one of those subjects where you need multiple textbooks in order to get a strong grasp of both the physical concepts and the mathematics underlying GR. Both of course can only be grasped strongly by doing problems.

From personal experience I found that Schutz did the math part quite well at the undergrad level but not so much the physical concepts part, at least not in terms of problems. I'm sure your professor has his own problem sets to give out that don't come directly from Schutz but if you want to splurge on an extra textbook for extra practice with problems and whatnot then I would really recommend another gem of GR pedagogy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805386629/?tag=pfamazon01-20

I've done a lot of the problems in Hartle in the past and I can say that the problems in Hartle are infinitely better than the ones in Schutz for grasping the physical concepts underlying GR. In my opinion it is the physical concepts of GR that are harder to really get a mastery of; the mathematics is easy. There are also a lot of little things here and there that Hartle expounds upon, things that Schutz either never even mentions or explains incorrectly (e.g. the operational construction of an experimental laboratory using Lorentz frames, the operational difference between a coordinate system and a Lorentz frame, all the little box discussions reminiscent of MTW).

Check it out if you can and have fun!
 
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