About nature of superposition of states

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the superposition of states in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the spin of electrons. Participants explore whether an electron has a definite spin value prior to observation or if it exists in a superposed state until measured. The conversation touches on theoretical implications and interpretations of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the spin of an electron does not have a definite value until it is observed, suggesting it exists in a superposition of states.
  • Others argue that an unentangled electron has a definite spin in some direction, although this direction may not be known until measurement.
  • A participant mentions that the observation of the electron's spin acts as a breaking of symmetry, forcing it into one of the observable states.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of reality only existing upon observation, with references to paradoxical consequences of such a view.
  • One participant highlights the mathematical framework of quantum mechanics, specifically the Bloch sphere representation for spin-1/2 particles, noting that the spin is undetermined until measured.
  • Another participant discusses the behavior of photons in a Mach-Zehnder interferometer, suggesting that both outcomes exist in a superposition and interfere with each other.
  • There is a challenge to the analogy between electrons and classical objects like the Moon, emphasizing that quantum properties do not require classical existence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether an electron has a definite spin prior to observation, leading to an unresolved discussion with multiple competing interpretations of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics, the complexity of entangled versus unentangled states, and the implications of measurement on the state of particles. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

  • #121
I was re-reading the previous posts, but a question arose.
Some posts ago, I said:

HighPhy said:
When you observe the spin, this probability distribution collapses to a defined state, and then your measurement changes that probability distribution. Depending on the case, it can collapse it to a very simple one - probability 1 for a certain value and 0 for all others.

As answers, I obtained:

PeroK said:
Spin is a 3D vector quantity. In QM, only spin about one axis can be defined - spin about the other two axes remains undefined. If we measure about the z-axis, we get either ##\pm \frac \hbar 2## and the state collapses to z-spin-up or z-spin-down. Subsequent measurements of a free particle will always give the same outcome. But, measurements about the x or y-axis will give ##\pm \frac \hbar 2## with equal probability.

Moreover, if the particle is in a magnetic field, then the state will naturally evolve from the initial state or z-spin-up or z-spin-down. Look up Larmor Precession.
PeterDonis said:
For spin measurements, this will always be the case, since spin is a discrete observable.
What is the particular connection that allows these two responses to be viewed as related?
Sorry for not grasping it.
 
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  • #122
HighPhy said:
What is the particular connection that allows these two responses to be viewed as related?
My statement that you quoted was in response to your statement about collapse. Look for the word "collapse" in what you quoted from @PeroK. What does it say about that?
 
  • #123
PeterDonis said:
My statement that you quoted was in response to your statement about collapse. Look for the word "collapse" in what you quoted from @PeroK. What does it say about that?
It says "if we measure about the z-axis, we get either ##\pm \frac{\hbar}{2}## and the state collapses to z-spin-up or z-spin-down."

I may have understood. I focused my attention on the rest of the response, but perhaps what @PeroK says is the mathematical description of your words in the comment I quoted. Correct?
 
  • #124
HighPhy said:
what @PeroK says is the mathematical description of your words in the comment I quoted. Correct?
Yes.
 
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  • #125
HighPhy said:
It says "if we measure about the z-axis, we get either ##\pm \frac{\hbar}{2}## and the state collapses to z-spin-up or z-spin-down."

I may have understood. I focused my attention on the rest of the response, but perhaps what @PeroK says is the mathematical description of your words in the comment I quoted. Correct?
The spin state is an abstract vector in a 2D complex vector space; and, the spin measurable is a vector in physical space - although its components cannot all be well-defined.
 

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