About Sodium Carbonate(Definition of base)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the definition of a base, particularly in relation to sodium carbonate. Participants explore various definitions of bases, including Arrhenius, Brønsted-Lowry, and Lewis concepts, and question whether sodium carbonate fits these definitions, especially considering its behavior in neutralization reactions and its production of hydroxide ions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a base is defined as a chemical that reacts with an acid to form only water and salt, questioning the inclusion of metal carbonates like sodium carbonate under this definition.
  • Others introduce different definitions of bases, including Arrhenius, Brønsted-Lowry, and Lewis, suggesting that sodium carbonate can be classified as a Brønsted-Lowry base.
  • Some participants express agreement with the initial definition of a base, emphasizing that bases participate in neutralization reactions that produce water and salt.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of the definitions when considering the pH of solutions such as ammonia, carbonates, and phosphates, which may not align with the initial definition provided.
  • A participant notes that sodium carbonate is not an Arrhenius base but qualifies as a Brønsted-Lowry base.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of the Arrhenius definition, with some arguing it does not adequately explain the behavior of certain solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of a base, with some agreeing with the initial definition while others highlight its limitations. The classification of sodium carbonate remains contested, with no clear consensus on its status as a base under the various definitions discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the definitions of bases, particularly regarding their applicability to various chemical behaviors and the resulting pH of solutions. The nuances of each definition and their implications for specific compounds like sodium carbonate are not fully resolved.

abcd8989
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A base is a chemical which reacts with an acid forming water and salt only.
Is this definition of base true?
If true, metal carbonates are not considered as base (carbon dioxide is also formed during neutralization which violates the definition). Hence, the solution of metal carbonates are not considered to be alkalis (since alkali is a subset of base). However, metal carbonates are usually basic, e.g. sodium carbonate. I am bewildered whether we can call sodium carbonate a base then.
Moreover, I would like to know the chemical reaction of sodium carbonate representing the production of OH- ions. Thanks very much.
 
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abcd8989 said:
A base is a chemical which reacts with an acid forming water and salt only.
Is this definition of base true?

Arrhenius base: A substance which increases the amount of hydroxide ions when added to an aqueous solution.
Brønsted-Lowry base: A substance which can act as a proton acceptor.
Lewis base: An electron-pair donor.

Those are the most common, and the Brønsted-Lowry is probably the most used and the one implied by 'base' in general.
 
alxm said:
Arrhenius base: A substance which increases the amount of hydroxide ions when added to an aqueous solution.
Brønsted-Lowry base: A substance which can act as a proton acceptor.
Lewis base: An electron-pair donor.

Those are the most common, and the Brønsted-Lowry is probably the most used and the one implied by 'base' in general.
So, is sodium carbonate considered a base?
 
abcd8989 said:
So, is sodium carbonate considered a base?

It's a Brønsted-Lowry base.
 
I find that definition true. There's really nothing complicated or more in-depth from the question. Bases are involved in neutralization reactions, which does product water and salt.
 
Trooper100 said:
I find that definition true. There's really nothing complicated or more in-depth from the question. Bases are involved in neutralization reactions, which does product water and salt.

So, how do you explain high pH of solution of ammonia, or of solution of carbonate, or of solution of phosphate?

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Well, all follows from the definition of base we're using. Sodium carbonate isn't a Arrhenius base, but it is a Bronsted-Lowry.

@Borek: I agree with Trooper100. Low pH of ammonia solution can be explained since NH3 acts as a proton acceptor. Low pH of phosphate and carbonate solutions are explained by the hydrolysis of the phosphate and carbonate ions.
 
Acut said:
I agree with Trooper100.

I can be misreading something, but Trooper has just confirmed initial definition from the very first post:

base is a chemical which reacts with an acid forming water and salt only

Now combining it with your post:

Acut said:
Low pH of ammonia solution can be explained since NH3 acts as a proton acceptor. Low pH of phosphate and carbonate solutions are explained by the hydrolysis of the phosphate and carbonate ions.

Basically you have stated "base is a chemical that reacts with acid forming water and salt, but ammonia solutions are basic because ammonia reacts with water". Second part of what you stated can be not explained using definition you have listed first.

It is not that Arrhenius definition is incorrect, it is just limited and original question can be not answered using it.

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