Acidic strength of phenol with isotopic oxygen i.e O 18 and just phenol

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison of the acidic strength of phenol with isotopic oxygen (O-18) versus regular phenol (with O-16). Participants explore the implications of isotopic substitution on acidity, particularly focusing on the effects of zero point energy and the stability of conjugate bases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to compare the acidic strength of phenol and phenol with O-18.
  • Another participant suggests that O-18, having two extra neutrons, might lead to a more stable conjugate base compared to O-16.
  • A clarification is made that O-18 has the same number of protons as O-16, which may influence the discussion on stability.
  • Participants mention the concept of zero point energy (ZPE) and its relevance to the isotope effect, noting that the ZPE of an oscillator decreases with increasing mass.
  • It is proposed that the differences in ZPE between O-18 and O-16 could affect the activation energy for dissociation pathways, although predicting the exact differences is complex.
  • One participant references a resource that provides further explanation on kinetic isotope effects, suggesting that O-18/O-16 effects are generally smaller than H/D effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the comparison of acidic strengths and the implications of zero point energy. There is no consensus on the exact effects of isotopic substitution on acidity, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the relationship between isotopic mass and zero point energy, as well as the stability of conjugate bases, which are not fully explored or agreed upon.

Sat-P
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I have a doubt between the acidic strength of phenol with isotopic oxygen i.e O 18 and just phenol
 
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What kind of doubt do you have?
 
Acidic strength comparison between phenol and phenol with O18
 
I don't know how to compare between
 
O18 has 2 extra proton so conjugate base must be more stable than that in O??
 
O18 has the same number of protons as O16.
 
It has two extra neutrons
 
I searched it somewhere and they said something about zero point energy. But I dont understand what it is!!
 
Sat-P said:
I searched it somewhere and they said something about zero point energy. But I dont understand what it is!!
It’s an example of the isotope effect. This is a really complex topic, but a simplified explanation goes like this: the zero point energy of an oscillator decreases with increasing mass, so the O-18 phenol OH vibration will have a lower ZPE than O-16 H. In addition, the transition state ZPE to break the OH bond will be different. In general these two ZPEs don’t decrease by the same amount, so one dissociation pathway will have a lower activation energy than the other. Predicting the magnitude and sign of this difference can be very complicated, but the magnitude is generally proportional to the mass difference between the isotopes. So O-18/O-16 isotope effects will be quite a bit smaller than H/D isotope effects. This page has a pretty good explanation with pictures and examples:
https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...l_Harmonic_Oscillator/Kinetic_Isotope_Effects
 

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