Added force in a line of people pushing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of force transmission in a line of people pushing against a wall. It explores the implications of steady versus sudden forces, the role of body positioning, and the effectiveness of multiple individuals pushing in unison.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the force exerted by a line of people pushing against a wall travels all the way to the wall, particularly under steady conditions.
  • Another participant describes the equilibrium of forces acting on the first person in the line, suggesting that the total reaction force on the wall is the sum of the friction against the ground and the push from the second person.
  • A humorous remark is made about assuming people have rigid arms, which may imply considerations of how force is transmitted through the body.
  • One participant argues that there would be losses in force transmission along the line, suggesting that the difference in effect on the wall between 99 and 100 people pushing would be negligible.
  • A participant shares personal reasoning for the inquiry, recalling a belief that the first person could hold back a larger group and relating it to a discussion about the dynamics of fish swimming in a school affecting a net.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of force transmission in a line of people, with some suggesting losses and others proposing that the force can effectively combine. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact mechanics and implications of the scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached consensus on the assumptions regarding force transmission and the effects of body positioning. The discussion includes anecdotal references that may not be universally applicable.

pkguy57
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If a person is pushing against a wall with his hands and he has a line of people behing him with their hands on the shoulders of the person in front of them pushing, does the force travel all the way to the wall? This is with a steady pushing force, not a sudden impact force. Would it make a difference if they were body to body instead of hand to shoulder?
 
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Start with one person pushing.

There are two opposing horizontal forces acting, maintaining the equilibrium of that person, considered as a free body.

Reaction from wall = Friction against the ground

Now introduce a second person, pushing in the same direction as the first.
Again consider the free body equilibrium of the first person.

Reaction from wall = Friction + Push from Second Person

R = F + P
 
Assuming people with rigid arms :P
 
There would be losses all along the line. For instance, there would be almost no difference in effect upon the wall between 100 people pushing or merely 99.
 
The reasons I ask are:
1) I remember reading somewhere that the first person would be able to hold back 100 people pushing against him in this configuration for some reason. But I can't explain to my son why.
2) We were watching "Finding Nemo" and discussing whether the fish all swimming down would really affect the net bringing them up. I said that unless all the force was tranfered to the net, a fish swimming in the middle or the back of the school would not make a difference.
 
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