Adding Angular Momentum is commutative, right?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the addition of angular momentum in quantum mechanics, specifically examining whether the order of angular momenta (spin and nuclear) affects the resulting Hamiltonian matrix. Participants explore the implications of using different conventions for labeling angular momenta and how this relates to the physical interpretation of energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a Hamiltonian matrix derived from adding angular momenta, questioning whether the order of addition (I and S vs. S and I) should affect the outcome.
  • Another participant suggests that the difference in Hamiltonians arises from an arbitrary phase factor rather than the order of addition itself.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the off-diagonal terms in the Hamiltonian are crucial, asserting that the energy levels remain unchanged despite different representations.
  • Further discussion highlights the need to diagonalize the Hamiltonian to see that eigenvalues remain consistent across different representations.
  • Participants express confusion about how phase factors relate to physical interpretations and energy splitting, indicating a need for clarification on the equivalence of different representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the phase factor and its physical significance. While some argue that the energy levels are invariant, others express uncertainty about the equivalence of the two cases and the impact of phase on physical interpretations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in understanding how arbitrary choices in phase affect the Hamiltonian and energy levels, as well as the dependence on the definitions used for angular momentum states.

TheDestroyer
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I have angular momenta [tex]S=\frac{1}{2}[/tex] for spin, and [tex]I=\frac{1}{2}[/tex]

for nuclear angular momentum, which I want to add using the Clebsch-Gordon basis, so the conversion looks like:

$$
\begin{align}
\lvert 1,1\rangle &= \lvert\bigl(\tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr)\tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2} \rangle ,\tag{4.21a} \\
\lvert 1,0\rangle &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(\lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2} \bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle + \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) ,-\tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr),\tag{4.21b} \\
\lvert 1,-1\rangle &= \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) , -\tfrac{1}{2} , -\tfrac{1}{2}\rangle , \tag{4.21c} \\
\lvert 0,0\rangle &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(\lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2} \rangle - \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr),- \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr) , \tag{4.21d}
\end{align}
$$

where [tex]F=I+S[/tex], so this is the basis [tex]\lvert F m_F \rangle = \sum_m \lvert\bigl(I S\bigr),m_I m_S\rangle[/tex].

Now since adding angular momenta is commutative, the exchange between [tex]I[/tex] and [tex]S[/tex] shouldn't mathematically introduce any kind of difference.

In other words, in the basis described in those equations, it shouldn't matter whether I write it as [tex]\lvert\bigl(I S\bigr),m_I m_S\rangle[/tex] or [tex]\lvert\bigl(S I\bigr),m_S m_I\rangle[/tex], right?

Now the problem is the following: I have created the Hamiltonian matrix [tex]H=-\vec{\mu}\cdot \vec{B} = -2 \mu B_z S_z/\hbar[/tex] in the [tex]\lvert F m_F \rangle[/tex] representation, and actually the result depends on how you call those angular momenta, so the result could be

$$H = \begin{pmatrix}
\mu_B B & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & - \mu_B B & 0 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & 0 &\mu_B B \\
0 & 0 & \mu_B B & 0
\end{pmatrix}$$

Or could be

$$H = \begin{pmatrix}
\mu_B B & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & - \mu_B B & 0 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & 0 &-\mu_B B \\
0 & 0 & -\mu_B B & 0
\end{pmatrix}$$

Depending on how you "label" them, [tex]I[/tex] or [tex]S[/tex]... which is very confusing!

This happens because the off-diagonal terms

$$\left\langle 1 0 \right| S_z \left| 0 0 \right\rangle = \frac{1}{2} \left( \left\langle (\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2}) \frac{1}{2} -\frac{1}{2} \right| + \left\langle (\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2}) -\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2} \right| \right) S_z \left( \left| (\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2}) \frac{1}{2} -\frac{1}{2} \right\rangle - \left| (\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2}) -\frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{2} \right\rangle \right)$$

will be either [tex]\hbar/2[/tex] or [tex]-\hbar/2[/tex] depending on your convention whether it's [tex]\lvert\bigl(I S\bigr),m_I m_S\rangle[/tex] or [tex]\lvert\bigl(S I\bigr),m_S m_I\rangle[/tex].

How can I understand this physically and mathematically? Shouldn't the addition be commutative and the process be blind to which labels I use?

Why is this important? Because in a computer program, when you add angular momenta, you don't look for their order, but only to their value! I wrote a Mathematica script to do this addition for me, and I got the second Hamiltonian which is different than the Hamiltonian in the book, which is the first one.
 
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TheDestroyer said:
$$
\begin{align}
\lvert 0,0\rangle &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(\lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2} \rangle - \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr),- \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr) , \tag{4.21d}
\end{align}
$$
In the above equation, there is an arbitrary choice. It would have been equally valid to take
$$
\begin{align}
\lvert 0,0\rangle &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(-\lvert \bigl( \tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2} \rangle + \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr),- \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr) , \tag{4.21d}
\end{align}
$$
which is the same, up to that arbitrary phase factor. This is in essence what you implicitely do when you change the notation from
##\lvert\bigl(I S\bigr),m_I m_S\rangle## to ##\lvert\bigl(S I\bigr),m_S m_I\rangle##.

Therefore, the difference between the two representations of ##H## are not due to the choice of the order of the addition of the vectors, but to that arbitrary choice of phase. You get the correct result only if the Hamiltonian is consistent with that choice.
 
Thank you for your reply. I still have a little problem understanding how those two cases are equivalent physically.

You're telling me that both cases are equivalent up to a phase factor, but I see there's different physics there, because one gets different energy splitting/displacement.

Could you please explain where that phase factor has to go (in a form of [itex]e^{i\phi}[/itex]) and how the energy levels are always the same independent of that phase?
 
Last edited:
TheDestroyer said:
You're telling me that both cases are equivalent up to a phase factor, but I see there's different physics there, because one gets different energy splitting/displacement.
No, you get the same result. The fact that terms that are different in both representations are off diagonal is very important here.

TheDestroyer said:
Could you please explain where that phase factor has to go (in a form of [itex]e^{i\phi}[/itex]) and how the energy levels are always the same independent of that phase?
(Note: use itex instead of tex to get inlined equations).

$$
\begin{align}
\lvert 0,0\rangle &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(- \lvert \bigl( \tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2} \rangle + \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr),- \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr) \\
&= \frac{e^{i \phi}}{\sqrt{2}}\biggl(\lvert \bigl( \tfrac{1}{2}\tfrac{1}{2}\bigr) \tfrac{1}{2},- \tfrac{1}{2} \rangle - \lvert\bigl( \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\bigr),- \tfrac{1}{2} \tfrac{1}{2}\rangle\biggr)
\end{align}
$$
with ##\phi = \pi##.

To see that you get the same energy in both cases, you need to diagonalize ##H##. In the case where
$$H = \begin{pmatrix}
\mu_B B & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & - \mu_B B & 0 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & 0 &\mu_B B \\
0 & 0 & \mu_B B & 0
\end{pmatrix}$$
you get two eigenstates with eigenvalue ##\mu_B B##, ##| 1, 1\rangle## and ##(| 1, 0\rangle + | 0, 0\rangle)/\sqrt{2}##, and two with eigenvalue ##-\mu_B B##, ##| 1, -1\rangle## and ##(| 1, 0\rangle - | 0, 0\rangle)/\sqrt{2}##.

For the second choice, with
$$H = \begin{pmatrix}
\mu_B B & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & - \mu_B B & 0 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & 0 &-\mu_B B \\
0 & 0 & -\mu_B B & 0
\end{pmatrix}$$
you get two eigenstates with eigenvalue ##\mu_B B##, ##| 1, 1\rangle## and ##(| 1, 0\rangle - | 0, 0\rangle)/\sqrt{2}##, and two with eigenvalue ##-\mu_B B##, ##| 1, -1\rangle## and ##| 1, 1\rangle##, ##| 1, -1\rangle## and ##(| 1, 0\rangle + | 0, 0\rangle)/\sqrt{2}##.

Do you see? The states of the same energy in both cases differ only by the sign of ##| 0, 0\rangle##, which exactly corresponds to the choice of phase in the definition of ##| 0, 0\rangle##.
 
Ah, I see! So the Hamiltonian changes but the Eigenvalues don't change. Thank you so much.
 

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