Adding more meteorites to my collection

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In summary: So none of it is in the form of crashed asteroids or anything like that. There is probably also some discussion in the literature about the parent body of the Tagish Lake meteorite which is thought to be an Oort cloud object but it's not an ID'd body so it's just extrapolation and inference of the isotopic ratios that were measured. In summary, the conversation covers the topic of collecting meteorites, with the participants expressing their fascination with these space rocks and the desire to start a collection. They discuss the different types of meteorites and their origins, such as the NWA 6903 from Morocco and the Mt Dooling from Western Australia. They also mention the Widmanst
  • #1
davenn
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I'm addicted to space rocks... I just can't help myself :partytime: :partytime: :wink:

These 3 came from a meteorite seller in Poland
http://www.polandmet.com/

And still awaiting for the postman to arrive with a Cuban meteorite via a seller in Arizona, USA.

2 of these latest samples are very nice slices nickel-Iron

The bolded names are the official names and usually indicate where they were found ...
near a town, a county, etc
NWA = North West Africa

NWA 6903 is from Morocco
Fall Date: unknown, Found: 2008
Nickel-Iron
Meteoritical Bulletin Database
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=53891

20200324_201937sm.jpg


Mt Dooling is from Western Australia
Fall Date: unknown, Found: 1909
Nickel-Iron
Meteoritical Bulletin Database
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=16771

20200324_200824sm.jpg
And the gem, of the 3 purchases, is a slice of moonrock that arrived on Earth as a meteorite

NWA 11421 is from Morocco
Fall Date: unknown, Found: 2017
Achondrite, Lunar Feldspathic Breccia ( Achondrite = a stony meteorite that does not contain chondrules.
If you look at the sample below, you will see no circular material (chondrules) rather they are
rough irregular shapes typical of a breccia)
Meteoritical Bulletin Database
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=66054

20200324_201810sm.jpg

cheers

Dave
 
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  • #2
How cool it is to touch something formed maybe light years away!? Makes me want to start collecting!
 
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  • #3
Greg Bernhardt said:
How cool it is to touch something formed maybe light years away!? Makes me want to start collecting!

It really is ! Just holding something that has zoomed through space for countless zillions of years
is amazing.
Other than the Moon or Mars meteorites, most/all material is understood to have come from the Asteroid Belt and some comets.

You bring up a good point that I don't think I have really considered. Do we actually see stuff from outside our solar system ? And if there is, how would we identify it as such? I must ask the question of that to those that know more than me :smile:

Greg Bernhardt said:
Makes me want to start collecting!

Go for it !
Greg, there are sellers in the USA that have samples at very reasonable prices, a lot of stuff under US100 each.
For me buying in stuff from overseas is a killer because of the bad exchange rate.

You may not want a whole collection, maybe just spend more money on a single reasonable sized sample
as a show piece in your lounge ... great talking point with visitors :smile:

That last sample I bought a few weeks back that was in my other thread
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/a-new-space-rock-to-my-collection.985230/

was AU$400 ~ US$250 ... not a huge outlay for a single sample if you were to do that
and hey, they never drop in price ! so are a great investmentDave
 
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  • #4
davenn said:
And if there is, how would we identify it as such? I must ask the question of that to those that know more than me :smile:
Age? Anything substantially older than 4-5 Ga, say?
 
  • #5
Bystander said:
Age? Anything substantially older than 4-5 Ga, say?

Yeah, possibly, would have to pre-date rocky material from the solar system formation
 
  • #6
NWA6903 looks like charred fiberboard, with its crystal growth and blackened outer shell.
Size of the crystal means it must have had a slow cooling at some point in its history.
 
  • #7
256bits said:
NWA6903 looks like charred fiberboard

Yeah, it does when thought about :smile:

256bits said:
Size of the crystal means it must have had a slow cooling at some point in its history.

Probably a fair assumption. Nickel iron meteorites are deemed to have come from the cores of
asteroids that have broken up as a result of collisions

That pattern you see is called the Widmanstätten pattern. It's a distinguishing feature of
Nickel-Iron meteorites

from wiki ...
Widmanstätten patterns, also known as Thomson structures, are figures of long nickel–iron crystals, found in the octahedrite iron meteorites and some Pallasites. They consist of a fine interleaving of kamacite and taenite bands or ribbons called lamellae. Commonly, in gaps between the lamellae, a fine-grained mixture of kamacite and taenite called plessite can be found. Widmanstätten patterns describe features in modern steels, titanium and zirconium alloys.

As hinted above, can be found in manufactured steels etc, it pretty much only occurs naturally in meteorites
The meteorite slice, like the one above, is cut, acid etched and polished to bring out the patternDave
 
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  • #8
With steel one needs a magnification to see the patterns - cooling rate fairly quick.

For the meteorites, millions of years. give or take, for the patterns to be visible to the naked eye, as there has to be diffusion for grain/crystal growth, and the longer it takes the material to solidify, the larger the crystals, leaving a lower surface energy at the boundaries. There could be, as a guess, some diffusion for the solid form also, though I don't know what that would be.

Knowing the rate of diffusion one can calculate the growth and the cooling rate., and then the size of the original larger chunk, that eventually broke up by collision ( or... ), and ones gets a meteorite that you now possess.
 
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  • #9
Not sure the claim "might have formed light years away" can be readily assessed as it is statistical and both spatial and temporal in nature as stars in our galaxy move around the galaxy. As the age of matter is typically determined based off when the material was last "reset" chemically/isotopically and any differentiated body will inheritly get its isotopic signature reset I don't think any of these could be classified as anything but solar. Were the isotopic ratios to have been found to be extra solar that would have made big new a while back.
 
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  • #10
Dragrath said:
I don't think any of these could be classified as anything but solar.
Agreed, I have never heard anyone claim that they have one that is from outside of the solar system
 
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  • #11
davenn said:
Agreed, I have never heard anyone claim that they have one that is from outside of the solar system
Yeah I think the only claims in meteorites for interstellar material come from individual grains within a undifferentiated meteorite that have isotopic signatures indicating they came from a red giant star and predate the Sun. And when I say material I mean microscopic stardust mixed in with stuff in the early solar system without getting its signature erased. After all literally everything in our solar system heavier than hydrogen and helium had to come from a star and almost all of that hydrogen and helium will probably have been in a star at one point. The most mind blowing bit is the heavy r process elements which we now know probably came from the destruction and or disruption of a Neutron star (whether it be the delayed r process generation which appears to be neutron star colisions or the momentarily formed neutron star at the heart of a collapsar the leading candidate for the source which dominates r process signatures of active star formation regions.) Whoops got a bit off topic sorry.
 
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  • #12
The addiction continues
This lockdown period has been very detrimental to my bank balance hahaha

This is the latest acquition, one I had been wanting to add for some time

2.04g Allende from Mexico observed fall in 1969
This is a carbonaceous chondrite

Allende CV3 Chondrite with COA sm.jpg


Allende CV3 Chondrite.jpg
Meteoritical Bulletin Database

There's another 3 posts yet to arrive with a total of 12 more samples from around the worldDave
 
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  • #13
Looks as if someone or something has been nibbling at you specimen. Meteor mice? :mouse:
 
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  • #14
ohhh dear ….
this lockdown is getting hard on the bank balance

use money on essentials.jpg


2020-04 8xmet's from PolandMET.jpg


NWA = Northwest Africa

The amount of meteoritic material coming out of the NW Africa is astounding !

Morocco, Algeria and surrounding countries. There are now well over 15,000 different
cataloged falls. The finding and selling of meteorites b y the local peoples, nomads etc
is giving them a good boost to their low incomes.

The bottom centre is the latest small Martian sample . The prices for Lunar and Martian
material is going crazy.
 
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  • #15
davenn said:
The amount of meteoritic material coming out of the NW Africa is astounding !

Same reason as Antarctica. If you find a rock on top of 3 miles of ice, chances are it came from the sky. Same idea - if it's on top of a big pile-O-sand, it might be there for a reason.
 
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  • #16
Since all of the elements heavier than Lithium are only created inside of stars (not counting the ones made by humans in particle accelerators and such). Pretty much everything you can touch was outside of our solar system at some time in the past. I know it's a bit pedantic and not really about meteorites, but it is amazing to consider.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis#Stellar_nucleosynthesis
 
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  • #17
Vanadium 50 said:
Same reason as Antarctica. If you find a rock on top of 3 miles of ice, chances are it came from the sky. Same idea - if it's on top of a big pile-O-sand, it might be there for a reason.

Yes, for sure and specially when their composition is nothing like the rocks in the surrounding region.
The big difference between meteorites from arid regions like the Sahara etc and those from Antarctica
and other parts of the world is the often lack of, little fusion crust on the ones from the arid regions.

Sand/dust storms do a good job of ablating the crust off the meteorite

Dave
 
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  • #18
DaveE said:
Since all of the elements heavier than Lithium are only created inside of stars (not counting the ones made by humans in particle accelerators and such). Pretty much everything you can touch was outside of our solar system at some time in the past.

True, but to touch/have a rock that has zoomed through space for countless millions of years to finally arrive on Earth is pretty cool.
Even more awesome when it has come from near neighbours, the Moon and Mars :smile: Dave
 
  • #19
davenn said:
True, but to touch/have a rock that has zoomed through space for countless millions of years to finally arrive on Earth is pretty cool.
Even more awesome when it has come from near neighbours, the Moon and Mars :smile:Dave
Yes, I do think there's a difference between a rock and the atoms in the rock. Where and how it was assembled, and how it got here matters, IMO.
 
  • #20
Some more samples arrived yesterday (28 Apr. 2020)

3 more Australian sites ( I'm really trying to get as many from around Oz as possible)

And a MUCH bigger sample from the 15 Feb 2013 Chelyabinsk fall, than the tiny fragment I have.
Out of the 4, only this one was seen to fall

Meteorites from BenS Ballarat.jpg


Left to right, top to bottom

Ingella Station
, Queensland (state), Australia, Found 1987, 50kg total known weight (TKW)
OC = Ordinary Chondrite, H5
H is high iron
type 5 = Designates chondrites that have been metamorphosed under conditions sufficient to homogenize olivine and pyroxene, convert all low-Ca pyroxene to orthopyroxene, cause the growth of various secondary minerals, and blur chondrule outlinesWolfe Creek, Western Australia ( State), Australia, Old fall ~ 110,000 years b.p.
Iron. This left a sizeable crater
wolfe creek crater.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfe_Creek_CraterChelyabinsk, southern Urals, Russia. An individual rather than a fragment
This has a full fusion crust with only 1 tiny 1mm window into it's interior
It's an Ordinary Chondrite of type LL5
LL5 = Low Iron, Low metal, 5 = is as the Ingella Station one above

The arrival of this meteor in the dark early morning sky was nothing short of spectacular.
Some 1500 people indirectly injured mainly from flying glass from the 1000's of windows
broken by the shockwave
Due to the huge number of dash-cams in Russian vehicles there are many videos on the net
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=chelyabinsk+meteor&FORM=HDRSC4

Veevers, Western Australia ( State), Australia. <1 million years old. Meteorites found in 1984
Iron, Type IIAB =
"An iron meteorite belonging to chemical group IIAB."
The highlighted words are defined as follows:
iron meteorite: A meteorite that is dominantly composed of Fe-Ni metal and that crystallized from a melt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veevers_cratercheers
Dave
 
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  • #21
How much of Chelyabinsk has been found? There must be (literally) tons of material around.
 
  • #22
Vanadium 50 said:
How much of Chelyabinsk has been found? There must be (literally) tons of material around.

most of it burnt up

of the ….. With an estimated initial mass of about 12,000–13,000 tonnes[7][8][10] (13,000–14,000 short tons, heavier than the Eiffel Tower), and measuring about 20 m (66 ft) in diameter (Wiki)

but much less recovered ~ 1 tonne
from the Meteoritical Bulletin...

Writeup from MB 103:
Chelyabinsk, recovery of additional masses

The main mass of the Chelyabinsk meteorite fell into Chebarkul lake and broke the ice, forming a 7 m hole (54°57’33.74"N, 60°19’19.58"E). Numerous small fragments (0.5 to 1 g) were scattered around the hole on the snowy ice. 5 kg of meteorite samples were recovered from the lake bottom using magnets during the first month after the meteorite fell. Additionally, ~10 kg of meteorite fragments were recovered by local residents in the same way, but were not well documented. Underwater recovery operations between Sept. 5 and Oct. 16, 2013, retrieved eight additional meteorite fragments: the largest sample weighed ~540 kg, and the other seven fragments totaled 84.4 kg. The total mass of meteorite pieces recovered from the bottom of Chebarkul lake was therefore ~640 kg. Hence the total estimated mass of Chelyabinsk meteorite fragments recovered from the lake and collected in the strewn field on land is ~1000 kg.

Submitted by A. V. Kocherov (Chelyabinsk State University, Chelyabinsk, Russia), M. A. Ivanova (Vernad).
 
  • #23
here's my latest acquition

It from an observed fall on the 24th April 2020
It's an ordinary Chondrite, all 11.56g of it, with a nice fresh fusion crust on one end
Class L6
Definition from The Meteoritical Bulletin ….
The recommended classification L6 means:
"An ordinary chondrite from the L group that is petrologic type 6."

The highlighted words are defined as follows:
Ordinary chondrite: A major class of chondrites, distinguished by sub-solar Mg/Si and refractory/Si ratios, oxygen isotope compositions that plot above the terrestrial fractionation line, and a large volume percentage of chondrules, with only 10-15 vol% fine-grained matrix.

L group: The low-iron (L) chemical group of ordinary chondrites, distinguished by their relatively low siderophile element content, moderate sized chondrules (~0.7 mm), and oxygen isotope compositions that intermediate between H and LL group ordinary chondrites.

Type 6: Designates chondrites that have been metamorphosed under conditions sufficient to homogenize all mineral compositions, convert all low-Ca pyroxene to orthopyroxene, coarsen secondary phases such as feldspar to sizes ≥50 µm, and obliterate many chondrule outlines; no melting has occurred.
200424 Kenya meteorite.jpg


One of my USA meteorite friend's has contacts in Kenya and they were able to secure a number of
large chunks within hours of it hitting the ground. This is great as it wasn't drenched with rain.
His 5kg of samples ( out of the 20 - 35kg known to have been collected) arrived to him yesterday 20th
May ( his date) he has broken them up into many smaller samples for sale. Most of which has now been
purchased by collectors worldwide.
It cost me US$15/g, not too bad for a brand new fall.
This is rather special to me being the freshest meteorite in my collection :smile: :partytime:

cheers
Dave
 
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  • #24
A bit of meteorite humour

Meteorites I just bought and new one posted.jpg


Money buys meteorites.jpg
 
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  • #25
Latest additions ...

This is from the observed Vinales, Cuba, fall of 01 Feb. 2019
It is a complete slice, meaning there is fusion crust for the full circumference.
It is 6.86g of a total of 50kg recovered and is an Ordinary Chondrite of classification L6
L group: The low-iron (L) chemical group of ordinary chondrites, distinguished by their relatively low siderophile element content, moderate sized chondrules (~0.7 mm), and oxygen isotope compositions that intermediate between H and LL group ordinary chondrites.

type 6: Designates chondrites that have been metamorphosed under conditions sufficient to homogenize all mineral compositions, convert all low-Ca pyroxene to orthopyroxene, coarsen secondary phases such as feldspar to sizes ≥50 µm, and obliterate many chondrule outlines; no melting has occurred

20200603_vsm3.jpg
This next one is the Imilac stony-iron from the Antofagasta region, Chile.
It is a 9.13g end cut piece. The total known mass for the Imilac is around 920kg
It is a Pallasite, its fall date is unknown and it was found in 1822
two images showing cut and un-cut sides

20200603_vsm8.jpg


20200603_vsm9.jpg

cheers
Dave
 

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  • #26
Latest arrivals from a Californian shop
These guys are awesome, affordable prices, and fast delivery.
www.meteorites-for-sale.com
just in case any of you would like to get your own meteorite :smile:

20200616 The Meteorite Exchange #2 sm.jpg


A really nice variety of types and locations. Was good to get some more Australian ones to the collection :smile:

Always feel free to ask questions about any I post or just about meteorites in general.
I would appreciate it if the thread has some good discussion rather than just a show and tellCheers
Dave
 
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  • #27
davenn said:
fast delivery

Not as fast as the meteor was delivered to earth!
 
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  • #28
davenn said:
Always feel free to ask questions about any I post or just about meteorites in general.

Is there a small accretion disk around you as you move from place to place?

Those samples are really beautiful. I inherited a small collection of minerals from a friend and am amazed by the variety. Never would have thought them so interesting.
What is the range of speeds seen? Do the samples directly exhibit effects of various speed or do they effectively see a similar heating environment?
 
  • #29
hutchphd said:
Is there a small accretion disk around you as you move from place to place?

haha, yeah, I cannot go on a serious holiday without coming home with some rocks, minerals, fossils or meteorites

hutchphd said:
Those samples are really beautiful. I inherited a small collection of minerals from a friend and am amazed by the variety. Never would have thought them so interesting.

I started doing rock, mineral and fossil collecting a long time ago, around 1968. I shipped my entire collection from New Zealand to Australia
when I moved here in 2000. I got my first meteorite in the early 1990's but over the last 3 years, and particularly over the last 4 months, the meteorite collection has really exploded in size and variety.
hutchphd said:
What is the range of speeds seen? Do the samples directly exhibit effects of various speed or do they effectively see a similar heating environment?

Speeds on entry into the atmosphere do vary a bit. The major reason is when they enter, after midnight local time and closer to dawn,
the Earth is going straight into any meteoroids and the combined speed of the meteoroid and the Earth make for higher velocities
than before local midnight when the meteoroid is coming in from "behind" the Earth's orbit direction

a couple of diagrams

meteoroid directions mydarksky.org.jpg

from - mydarksky.com
Meteors hit earth  skyandtelescope.org.jpg

from skyandtelescope.org
VelocityDistribution.png

from - mathscience.com cheers
Dave
 
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  • #30
Vanadium 50 said:
Not as fast as the meteor was delivered to earth!
so true :smile:
 
  • #31
So how come your California source has Moon display boxes and Mars display boxes but no 4 Vesta display boxes? Vesta is not feeling the love?
 
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  • #32
Vanadium 50 said:
So how come your California source has Moon display boxes and Mars display boxes but no 4 Vesta display boxes? Vesta is not feeling the love?

Didn't notice that till you pointed it out.
Poor Vesta and the other asteroids :frown: I guess that the material from Vesta and the other asteroids is just so much more common
compared to the Moon or Mars that they didn't deem it worthy.
 
  • #33
But Vesta is special. It's not just any asteroid - it's one where we can look at a meteorite and say "that asteroid". Further, we can say "that impact on that asteroid" which we can't say for the moon or Mars.

As I was writing this, it dawned on me that HED meteorites tell us a lot about the sources of other meteorites. Vesta is 9% of the asteroid belt's mass, but only 5% of the meteorites. Furthermore, a good portion of what used to be its southern hemisphere was blasted into space. That should make the fraction go up, not down. So therefore most meteorites aren't coming (directly) from the belt, but rather are likely in closer orbits.

Now I am puzzled not by why there are so few, but why there are so many.
 
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  • #34
another couple of parcels arrived today

8 meteorite samples inc. one really special one. The lower 3 pic's in the centre give a hint ...
20200707_114752sm.jpg


That hint aiming at the top left case. 4 fragments of meteorite and 4 pieces of shattered glass from windows damaged by the shockwave
when the 2013 Chelyabinsk ( Russia) meteor exploded over the town.
My friend in Arizona got hold of his mate in Chelyabinsk and had his freight to the USA a number of full window frames with the broken
glass so that he could make up these presentations
Other meteorites there are from Kenya, Northwest Africa ( mainly Morocco) and Algeria
The mentioned prices are US$, just to give some indications of costs for anyone wanting to have their own bit of outer space :smile:

20200707_115001sm.jpg
This last sample is from Pakistan. A relatively fresh fall from earlier this year
The guy who got this out of Pakistan lost over 5kg of rock when it was confiscated by the govt :frown::cry:
20200707_115137sm.jpg
cheers
Dave
 
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  • #35
You're not going to be happy until you've reassembled an entire asteroid, are you? :wink:
 
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