Advanced Data Fitting - More than Simple Regressions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around advanced data fitting techniques aimed at deriving new equations from experimental results and performance analysis, particularly in the context of engineering applications such as heat exchangers. Participants explore the relationship between input data, dimensionless quantities, and the theoretical basis for these formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to improve data fitting skills to derive new equations and seeks guidance on the relevant field and literature.
  • Another participant suggests that expertise in the physics of the subject matter is crucial for deriving equations rather than relying solely on curve-fitting methods.
  • There is a discussion about whether the goal is to derive new equations or to fit a family of equations defined by constant parameters, with some participants seeking clarification on the distinction.
  • One participant describes their intention to fit a family of equations and optimize coefficients, expressing confusion about the process and terminology used in the discussion.
  • Another participant emphasizes the complexity of the equations mentioned and warns against using statistics to replace subject matter expertise, suggesting that theoretical foundations are necessary for understanding such formulations.
  • There is a mention of a specific function form (exponential) that the participant wishes to optimize, highlighting the challenge of finding the correct relationship between input parameters and the correction factor.
  • Participants discuss the need for a theoretical basis for the equations and express interest in identifying the mathematical discipline that encompasses such complex relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to data fitting or the importance of theoretical versus statistical methods. Multiple competing views remain regarding the necessity of subject matter expertise in deriving equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and processes involved in fitting equations and deriving new formulations. There are references to the need for theoretical understanding and the complexity of the equations discussed, but no specific methodologies or frameworks are agreed upon.

HumanistEngineer
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Hello All,
I want to improve myself in data fitting in order to derive new equations for the data from experimental results and/or performance analysis. I am an engineering researcher and since I found some out-of-world formulations derived from performance data, I need to learn this advanced data fitting (or whatever its name is) discipline.
Please guide me to the exact field name and/or books to achieve this skill. I guess that this is not just Math but also Physics so that one could put the relationship between the input data and/or dimensionless quantities.
For example: How come one could derive this formulation for the correction factor data (LMTD heat exchanger) as shown below:
Here is the formulation/expression:
Correction_Factor.png

For the graph:
2017_06_22_10_06_52_Logarithmic_Mean_Temperature_Difference_LMTD_Correction_Factor_Charts.png

Thank you in advance.
 
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I think these equations must come from expertise in the physics of the subject matter rather than from a curve-fitting approach.
 
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HumanistEngineer said:
I want to improve myself in data fitting in order to derive new equations for the data from experimental results and/or performance analysis.
Are you trying to derive new equations? Or are you trying to fit a family of equations that is defined by some constant parameters to data by estimating the values of the constant parameters?
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Are you trying to derive new equations? Or are you trying to fit a family of equations that is defined by some constant parameters to data by estimating the values of the constant parameters?
For now, I want to fit a family of equations (at least I can find the most close function form so that I can run an optimization to find the coefficients of the function form). I have been reading a lot in most of the web forums, if I understand correctly, there is a way to find equation patterns of which some suggests working with slopes and finding the coefficients by use of that (while keeping the other input parameters constant) or something similar as this approach. I am totally new so can't interpret what is told in most.
Why I need this is to integrate the heat exchanger model in my simulations but not limited to this.
Long way but the best is to spend time again what was teached in Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, Fluid Mechanics,... and this time paying attention about the theoretical basis of the formulations derived. But still a detailed reference book is my need to understand how such relation between input and/or dimensionless parameters and the results (math part) are found by some (as the LMTD correction factor example could be made). Also, I need a function for e(ffectiveness)-NTU method.
Thank you.
 
HumanistEngineer said:
For now, I want to fit a family of equations (at least I can find the most close function form so that I can run an optimization to find the coefficients of the function form).
This is still confusing to me. I think of a "family of equations" as functions that only differ by some parameters. So "fitting" the family of equations would mean running an optimization to find the coefficients (parameters) of the function form. But you seem to have something different in mind since you talk about doing the parameter optimization after fitting the family. Could you explain a little more what you mean by "fitting a family of equations"?
 
FactChecker said:
This is still confusing to me. I think of a "family of equations" as functions that only differ by some parameters. So "fitting" the family of equations would mean running an optimization to find the coefficients (parameters) of the function form. But you seem to have something different in mind since you talk about doing the parameter optimization after fitting the family. Could you explain a little more what you mean by "fitting a family of equations"?

Let me explain by my words. I want to derive/define a sole function form of an exponential equation i.e. a exp (b x + c) + d and run an optimization that minimizes the error between calculated and the real data by finding the coefficients i.e. a, b, c, d (at last the optimization can result for some of these coefficients in zero so I will remove that part considering multiplication i.e. b). Function form is not straightforward to find since two original input parameters P and R affect the correction factor (each line in the above graph is different values of R while all lines change with changing P value). This is my quick solution.

My curiosity is about the equation formation as in the first question comment of mine. That is out-of-world for me that someone could define the expressions (mid parameter X ) and, by use of X, R, and P, another complex equation formation that finds the correction factor (Y-Axis). Such complex relationing, I want to learn that but don't know which discipline involves such high relationing/regression.

Thank you.
 
Are you saying that you already know exp (b x + c) + d or that the first step is to find it among many other alternatives? If the later is the case, then I think that you are trying to use statistics to replace subject matter expertise. I don't recommend that. The equations in your original post are very complicated. They were not found with statistics. There is some theoretical basis for them.
 
FactChecker said:
Are you saying that you already know exp (b x + c) + d or that the first step is to find it among many other alternatives? If the later is the case, then I think that you are trying to use statistics to replace subject matter expertise. I don't recommend that. The equations in your original post are very complicated. They were not found with statistics. There is some theoretical basis for them.

Quick solution to integrate this correction factor in my large simulation can be ok with the most close function form i.e. a exp (b x + c) + d. But since I need to publish after some time I need to learn to drive the real expression or something close to that. I am sure that there must be a field in Math to find such relations between the input, mid-calculation datas and the result. If someone will guide me, I will buy the books for this field.
 

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