Aging Fastest: Does Moving Counter Universe Movement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between motion and aging as described by Einstein's special theory of relativity. Participants explore how different frames of reference and velocities affect the passage of time, particularly in the context of moving relative to various cosmic structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that to age the fastest, one should not move, as time passes differently for different observers based on their relative motion.
  • Others question the premise by asking for clarification on which observer's perspective is being considered, highlighting the relativity of time.
  • A hypothetical scenario involving twins is mentioned, where one twin travels at high speed while the other remains on Earth, illustrating the effects of relative motion on aging.
  • One participant proposes that staying in freefall and away from gravitational sources may allow for aging more slowly compared to being subjected to gravity.
  • There is a discussion about the effects of moving in a direction counter to the Earth's motion and whether this would result in aging faster or slower than remaining on Earth.
  • Another participant notes that if one returns to Earth after traveling, they would age slower than if they had stayed on Earth, depending on the chosen reference frame.
  • The concept of geodesics is introduced, suggesting that the path taken in spacetime can affect the proper time experienced, although the details remain complex and context-dependent.
  • Participants discuss the implications of different inertial frames, where each frame perceives the other's time as slower, complicating the understanding of aging in relative motion scenarios.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the effects of motion on aging, with no consensus reached on the optimal conditions for aging the fastest. The discussion remains unresolved with various interpretations of relativistic effects.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for specific definitions of reference points and time intervals when discussing aging and motion, indicating that assumptions about these parameters can significantly influence the conclusions drawn.

sf_49ers_49
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Einsteins special theory of relativity states that time passes differently for different observers. Basically the faster you travel the slower you aged. So I assumed this means to aged the fastest, you don't move.

We also know Earth is moving around the sun. The solar system is moving upward out of the Milky Way. The Milky way is also moving in the general direction of the Great Attractor and other galaxy clusters. I believe the Local Group is also moving within the Local Supercluster. The Supercluster should also be moving, etc...

So my question is how do you aged the fastest? Do you move super fast to counter the movement of earth, solar system, Milky way, Local Group, Supercluster, and etc?
 
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sf_49ers_49 said:
time passes differently for different observers
...
So my question is how do you aged the fastest?
For which observer?
 
A.T. said:
For which observer?
Time passes different for different observers, depending on the observers' motion. The common example is the two hypothetical twins: One of them stays at home, on Earth. The other journeys into space in an ultra-fast rocket, nearly as fast as the speed of light, before returning home.
 
sf_49ers_49 said:
The common example is the two hypothetical twins:
So you are asking how to age most between two meetings with another guy? Stay in freefall and away from gravity sources.
 
A.T. said:
So you are asking how to age most between two meetings with another guy? Stay in freefall and away from gravity sources.
My question is if I get into an ultra-fast rocket and go into the direction that counter the movement of earth, solar system, Milky way, Local Group, Supercluster, and etc, would I aged faster or slower than if I stay on earth?
 
sf_49ers_49 said:
My question is if I get into an ultra-fast rocket and go into the direction that counter the movement of earth, solar system, Milky way, Local Group, Supercluster, and etc, would I aged faster or slower than if I stay on earth?
Are you coming back to earth?

If yes, then the answer is you will age slower than if you had stayed.

If no, then the answer depends on the reference frame you choose. If you choose the Earth's reference frame then you will age slower, if you choose the CMB reference frame then you will age faster.
 
sf_49ers_49 said:
Einsteins special theory of relativity states that time passes differently for different observers. Basically the faster you travel the slower you aged. So I assumed this means to aged the fastest, you don't move.

We also know Earth is moving around the sun. The solar system is moving upward out of the Milky Way. The Milky way is also moving in the general direction of the Great Attractor and other galaxy clusters. I believe the Local Group is also moving within the Local Supercluster. The Supercluster should also be moving, etc...

So my question is how do you aged the fastest? Do you move super fast to counter the movement of earth, solar system, Milky way, Local Group, Supercluster, and etc?

Well, I would interpret your remark about wanting "to age the fastest" as wanting to maximize the proper time on your wristwatch.

But some more detail is needed. You need to specify a pair of points that you want to maximize the proper time between. Assuming that's what you want, perhaps I didn't interpret your question properly.

So let's say you want some location on Earth, and some location at the same point 1 second later. Well, you need to define what you mean by "the same point". Also, what you mean by one second later. Let's assume you mean "the same point on Earth, using the International Terrestrial Reference Frame (ITRF), and use the ITRF to define what you mean by 1 second later as well. Then the path that will maximize proper time is if your object moves upwards away from the Earth at some velocity v, in such a manner that it falls back to the specified ending point.

In general, once you specify your starting and ending point, (you can use any means, but a coordinate system is the usual means), then a geodesic path will extremize the proper time. If there are more than one geodesics between those two points, one of these extremized paths will be the one that maximizes the proper time.

I probably should explain what a geodesic is here, but I don't quite have the time.

If we assume you mean "the same point on the Earth", and consider longer and longer timescales, the procedure remains the same, but the details vary considerably.

For short times, you want to get the object out of the Earth's gravity well. For longer time scales, the path will whirl around the Earth on the way out, but the main effect on proper time will be the suns gravity well. Longer than that, and you worry about the galactic gravity well, and the supercluster gravity well. Of course, the Earth might not be around to get back to , so you might pick a different pair of points, like the solar system barycenter if you want galactic timescales.
 
Hi

sf_49ers_49 said:
So my question is how do you aged the fastest? Do you move super fast to counter the movement of earth, solar system, Milky way, Local Group, Supercluster, and etc?

Inertial frame A and Inertial frame B have same rights. For A, time of B is slow. For B, time of A is slow.
It does not contradict because they do not meet again. They do not have time to check answers.
To meet again for checking answers, one of them, say B, has to leave his inertia frame and get on another frame of inertia for return. Whem they meet A who has been still in his frame, is younger than B who moved by go-return journey.
 
sweet springs said:
Hi
Inertial frame A and Inertial frame B have same rights. For A, time of B is slow. For B, time of A is slow.
It does not contradict because they do not meet again. They do not have time to check answers.
To meet again for checking answers, one of them, say B, has to leave his inertia frame and get on another frame of inertia for return. When they meet A who has been still in his frame, is younger than B who moved by go-return journey.

Older, you mean?
 
  • #10
Nugatory said:
Older, you mean?

Yes. Thanks.
 

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