Alcohol, accidents, effects on family and social life, lives getting spoiled

[Danger]

Two things to say to you, Flippered-One. First, that dude is one of my favourite comics from the Montreal Comedy Festival, but I've never seen that particular act before. Purely brilliant.
Secondly, it's a good thing that you belong to an Antarctic species, because the first part of your post would have you clubbed and deep-fried in my culture.

 

[JaredJames]

That's brilliant Peng. It's right though.

The problem we have (at least in the UK) is that even though the media and various organisations are pushing alochol and drunks as bad and trying to impose a negative stereotype on them, there are simply too many people who 'think it's cool' to go out and drink until you are sick.

It's like speeding, people know it's bad but they accept it.

I don't see being drunk as a problem. It's those who are a problem whilst drunk. As I said previously, the government would be better off targetting those people via means like those I proposed above as opposed to simply blanket targetting everyone and penalising those who do no wrong.

 

[Danger]

What I find very ironic (and more than a little disgusting) is that I lost my driver's license about 7 years ago when I was dead-sober. Try telling those buggers that you can't blow a breathalizer when you have emphysemia...

 

[BobG]

Instead of trying to ban alcohol or tax it to hell and back (which they currently do), they should be looking to put deterrents in place such as:

If you're caught drunk driving, you instantly lose your license.
Any hospital treatment that you require due to you being so drunk/having drank to extremes, you must pay for.
Any person causing trouble because they are so drunk either has a large fine + community service or goes to prison for a year.
etc

I know they seem harsh, but people would get the message. At the moment, get drunk, jump in your car, get pulled over, three points + small fine, on your way. Perhaps a slight insurance increase. It just doesn't act as a deterrent.

Actually, I like the trend a lot of the states in the US are moving toward. If a person is caught drunk driving, they get a breathalyzer in their car for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years (depending on the state and the circumstances). The drunk driver leases the breathalyzer, so it's not a cost to the government - it's just one of the extra expenses drunk drivers incur.

The driver has to pass the breathalyzer to start their car, plus the machine occasionally requires a rolling breathalyzer. In other words, while driving, the machine can start beeping while driving and the driver has about 2 or 3 minutes to take another breathalzyer or his car shuts off (the time lag is because taking a breathalzyer in the middle of an intersection or having your car shut off in the middle of an intersection could be a problem in itself).

I don't know how lasting the effect is on drivers, but it at least reduces the risk for the period of time they have the breathalyzer in their car.

That raises a whole new ethics scenario in some cases:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tluIQrEn72k

This one is even better from ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/video/mom-drunken-drive-10714090

(I like that whole "What Would You Do" series from ABC.)

 

[Danger]

I would be so screwed by an in-car breathalizer. As mentioned before, I can't blow into one without reading as impaired, even if I haven't had a drink in over a week. Secondly, it costs over $1,000 per month to lease one, and my Social Assistance income is $740 per month to cover non-essential items such as housing and groceries.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm unwilling to give up my occasional glass of wine (which is http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9626.php, see any of various studies) just because some people can't handle it. Similarly, I'm unwilling to give up my house even though some people have ruined the economy through purchasing them when they couldn't afford it, nor to give up food even though obesity is a huge health problem in my country.

This is the reason I think alcohol should be legal (but well regulated) and cigarettes and most drugs should be illegal or regulated to extinction. There is no safe or healthy dosage of cigarettes or cocaine.

Pot is a little iffy to me: it is often claimed that they aren't harmful, and I'm sure they aren't as harmful as cigarettes, but you're still inhaling smoke.

 

[russ_watters]

This is a good point. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, only 46.5% of 21 to 25 year olds engage in heavy drinking or binge drinking (5 or more drinks at a sitting). These are the people that should voluntarily refrain from drinking. Taking some kind of government action, such as raising the drinking age, would be unfair to the 23% of 21 to 25 year olds that drink responsibly.

While 21 to 25 year olds may the worst abusers, it takes until the mid-30's before responsible drinkers start to outnumber alcohol abusers.

http://oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k9NSDUH/2k9ResultsP.pdf (you have to scroll all the way down to page 30 to get to the alcohol statistics)

Has anyone ever done a study to find out what the net effect on your health of 10 years of occasional binge drinking + 50 years of responsible drinking is?

 

[russ_watters]

I would be so screwed by an in-car breathalizer. As mentioned before, I can't blow into one without reading as impaired, even if I haven't had a drink in over a week. Secondly, it costs over $1,000 per month to lease one, and my Social Assistance income is $740 per month to cover non-essential items such as housing and groceries.

I've actually considered buying a personal breathalizer for personal use. They start at about $30: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001MDLRMY/?tag=pfamazon01-20

One of the key problems with young drinkers is they don't know their limits and don't know what levels cause real impairment. The reduction in drinking as people move out of their 20s is partly due to responsibility, but also partly due to learning your limits. If nothing else, reading your BAC could be a game at a bar and if the result is that the guy with the lowest BAC is handed the keys at the end of the night, it would probably have a significant impact on safety.

 

[JaredJames]

For me, there's no 'safe drink drive limit'. Once you've had alcohol, there's no driving. Period.

 

[Danger]

For me, there's no 'safe drink drive limit'. Once you've had alcohol, there's no driving. Period.

That's a bit of overkill. I had my first drink when I was 1 1/2 years old. My middle brother and his wife gave my parents a baby-bottle full of champagne with a pink ribbon around it as a wedding present. Apparently not recognizing my climbing skills, they thought that it would be safe on top of the fridge. I'm not sure, but I rather suspect that it was the same day that I ate all of my mother's tulips from her window box. She didn't care about the booze, but the flower thing had her pissed off for a week or so.

 

[JaredJames]

That's a big of overkill. I had my first drink when I was 1 1/2 years old. My middle brother and his wife gave my parents a baby-bottle full of champagne with a pink ribbon around it as a wedding present. Apparently not recognizing my climbing skills, they thought that it would be safe on top of the fridge. I'm not sure, but I rather suspect that it was the same day that I ate all of my mother's tulips from her window box. She didn't care about the booze, but the flower thing had her pissed off for a week or so.

Took me some time to understand that one. Damn clever I must say.

 

[Danger]

Took me some time to understand that one. Damn clever I must say.

Thank you for that, but it had nothing to do with cleverness. That is a true story. I was a year and a half old when my parents got married. My mother was holding me in her arms during the ceremony.
They later made the mistake of trying to have me "dedicated", which is the Unitarian version of a baptism. I reached up from my mother's arms, ripped the glasses off of the preacher's face, and threw them on the floor. That expressed my wishes enough that the ceremony was abandoned.

 

[Topher925]

For me, there's no 'safe drink drive limit'. Once you've had alcohol, there's no driving. Period.

Absolutely. People can barely drive when they are sober and even being slightly buzzed will increase the chances of getting into an accident.

 

[Pengwuino]

Absolutely. People can barely drive when they are sober and even being slightly buzzed will increase the chances of getting into an accident.

I think this sums up this conversation nicely.

I personally think license removals should be mandatory. I also think the suspension should depend on your previous driving record (or maybe it already does?). If someone never really speeds or has no real previous problems, they should face a couple months suspension which will probably help get their act together. If someone has a record of speeding and reckless driving, a year+ should be the suspension because the latter shows beyond udder disregard for the safety of anyone else. Hell, they should be forced to have 5 years of an on-board breathalyzer.

To me, drinking and driving is equivalent to getting an automatic rifle, walking onto a overpass, and just spraying into traffic. Yah you probably wouldn't hit anyone, but that's the scale of the utter disregard to everyone else on the road. Driving is a privilege. Hell, even gun ownership is arguably a right, not even a privilege, but when someone abuses gun ownership, they wind up in jail sometimes and aren't going to be buying any guys anytime soon. Why are we so lenient on drunk driving? Being a drunk is fine, just like being a gun nut is fine. However, when you expose the public to your behavior and put them in danger, I say you've forfeited your right to engage in either behavior.

Come to think of it, I think bars should have a national registry linked to the DMV that's scanned off your drivers license or what have you and if someones been arrested for a DUI within the past few years, adios.

 

[Danger]

I hate to admit it, you feathered little bastard, but I sort of agree with you. This disturbs me greatly.

 

[Pengwuino]

I hate to admit it, you feathered little bastard, but I sort of agree with you. This disturbs me greatly.

You owe me your humor award.

 

[BobG]

I would be so screwed by an in-car breathalizer. As mentioned before, I can't blow into one without reading as impaired, even if I haven't had a drink in over a week. Secondly, it costs over $1,000 per month to lease one, and my Social Assistance income is $740 per month to cover non-essential items such as housing and groceries.

I wonder what kind of interlock you're talking about. In the states, the monthly cost ranges between $60 and $100 a month, plus the installation, which is probably between $100 and $200.

In Colorado, even a first offense is a 9 month suspension, primarily because a driver can avoid the suspension by installing the interlock. Plus, if you were involved in an accident, a repeat offender, or had a high BAC (.17 or higher) can get 2 to 3 years with the interlock. Every failure results in a 3 month extension and can eventually result in a complete suspension.

I'm not sure how strictly they enforce the three month extension, at least in the beginning, because, according to an installer I know, an awful lot of people come in with multiple failures after the first month (the device is read each month), ranging from low BAC that wouldn't get them convicted of a DUI to flat out drunk readings. Yes, there are some people who figure getting caught was just a fluke and never stop drinking and driving just because they got a DUI. Those are the type of people that probably aren't affected by a suspended license, either.

And I know the very low BAC's aren't actually counted as failures to be reported to the DMV, since even mouthwash can cause a failed test. In fact, that's one of the main complaints - that the only acceptable BAC is zero. People can fail the test the morning after drinking if they drank enough the night before. It forces a pretty drastic change in lifestyle for some people, even if it at least provides them a way to get to their job and back.

 

[Danger]

Bob, where I live the initial installation costs $1,500, and you then have to pay somewhere around $1,000 per month for the rental.
I lost my license for 1 year because I couldn't afford a lawyer and the law student that I ended up with pled me guilty against my expressed orders. That was 7 or so years ago, but I then couldn't afford the insurance and registration. I met the ex-wife a couple of years later, and drove one of her vehicles until she buggered off over a year ago. If I had been caught doing that, it would have been a mandatory 5 years in jail. There is no room for negotiation on that.

 

[Jasongreat]

This is the reason I think alcohol should be legal (but well regulated) and cigarettes and most drugs should be illegal or regulated to extinction. There is no safe or healthy dosage of cigarettes or cocaine.

Pot is a little iffy to me: it is often claimed that they aren't harmful, and I'm sure they aren't as harmful as cigarettes, but you're still inhaling smoke.

Russ, can you name one thing that has ever been regulated to extinction, or became extinct after being made illegal? I can't think of any. The only way to get a product to become extinct, imo, is through education. If you can get a large enough group of people to agree with your opinion, then the product will become extinct, as long as there is sufficient demand there is going to be a supply and the more extreme the regulation the more extreme the suppliers will be.

Pot doesn't have to be smoked, it can be inhaled as a vapor, and it can be eaten and even if it is smoked it is of no concern to anyone but the individual using it, imo.

Imo, we need to push personal responsibility, not be going to war with a segment of society, just because they are a minority.

If nothing else, reading your BAC could be a game at a bar and if the result is that the guy with the lowest BAC is handed the keys at the end of the night, it would probably have a significant impact on safety.

I have been to a few bars that had a breathalyzer in them and they ended up having the opposite consequence as you hope for. Everyone was trying to see who was the drunkest, not the soberest.

There is one thing that needs to be taken into account and that is human nature, no one likes to be told how to live their lives. I feel there are more people out there trying to prove that they can drink what they want, when they want and do what they want, than there are that will just accept being told no. It isn't until a person agrees with a law, that they will follow it.

 

[russ_watters]

Russ, can you name one thing that has ever been regulated to extinction, or became extinct after being made illegal? I can't think of any.

Give it some time - cigarette smoking is wayyyy down.

 

[Danger]

Give it some time - cigarette smoking is wayyyy down.

Not here. Almost every time that I see a kid smoking, I try to talk him/her out of it by pointing out that I am dying because of it. Just as with me at that age, they invariably don't believe me. It's a classic case of "do as I say, not as I do", and it never works.

 

[JaredJames]

No kid thinks "that's going to happen to me". They think the complete opposite.

Talking them out of it, heck even scaring them with horrific photos just doesn't work.

I don't believe there's a way to stop people smoking/drinking/taking drugs. The government realize that education and shock/awe attacks just ain't having enough effect and so now they're going as far to make cigarettes only come in brown packets with the makers name and a warning on. Plus, they're stopping them being put on display. (This is in the UK)

They're only doing all of this because they don't want to / can't outright ban them.

They are now taking steps to make smoking as unappealing and what I consider to be as difficult as possible.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Can you imagine this? My neighbor got drunk last night and woke up the neighborhood trying to open front door. And in the land of the free and the home of the brave, the best solution they could find was to ban me from drinking. I expect that when they take away your right to free speech it will be because someone abused it.

 

[Danger]

Bob, I was mistaken. It's been so long that I had forgotten something. That $1,000 was what my total driving expenses would have been each month, rather than the cost for just the interlock itself. There was still the $1,500 installation fee, though. Sorry about the confusion.